Tuesday, August 09, 2011

Well, it really is bullshit

At the end of a long talk at the Aspen Institute (see the right hand column at the link) Al Gore spoke the truth, that the model which delayed action on tobacco, that model

The model they’re using in that effort was transported whole cloth into the climate debate. And some of the exact same people — I can go down a list of their names — are involved in this. And so what do they do? They pay pseudo-scientists to pretend to be scientists to put out the message: “This climate thing, it’s nonsense. Man-made CO2 doesn’t trap heat. It may be volcanoes.” Bullshit! “It may be sun spots.” Bullshit! “It’s not getting warmer.” Bullshit!

There are about ten other memes out there. When you go and talk to any audience about climate, you hear them washing back at you the same crap over and over and over again. They have polluted this — There’s no longer a shared reality on an issue like climate even though the very existence of our civilization is threatened. People have no idea! And yet our ability to actually come to a shared reality that emphasizes that this matters — It’s no longer acceptable in mixed company, meaning bipartisan company, to use the goddamn word “climate.” They have polluted it to the point where we cannot possibly come to an agreement on it.





The older may remember the ads with the guy dressed in a white lab coat claiming to be a doctor and telling everyone that there was no problem, he smoked himself and more doctors smoked Camels than any other brand.

The push back against Gore is coming because what he said was both true and powerful. When you find it dear bunnies, ask innocently what is wrong with calling bullshit out. Don't leave Al hanging out there on his own for committing truth.

By the way, perhaps the most important other thing he said was that after 9/11 two thirds of the American Public believed that Sadaam Hussain was responsible. Why and how this happened tells a lot about the current manipulation of opinion.

70 comments:

b5230294-91bd-11e0-a606-000bcdcb5194 said...

It appears that Al Gore is desperate, and coming at a time when his carbon trading scheme is unravelling -- well people say, when you're hopping mad at someone you're really mad at yourself.

And the tobacco analogy doesn't work. The alarmists are the guys in the lab coats in your example, pretending they know how climate works.

Anonymous said...

I call bullshit on the first commenter!
Smoking ribs bunny

ScruffyDan said...

We can do more than call bullshit on the first commenter. We can implore that he take the time and read Merchants of Doubt, which chronicles all of this in exquisite detail.

But that wont happen. Hopefully (but also doubtful) at least he will take a couple of minutes and look up people like Fred Singer and The Heartland Institute.

amoeba said...

#1 was a bullshit merchant, and given the rapidity, is almost certainly paid for spreading bullshit.

EliRabett said...

Of course #1 is bullshit. Gore scares the Merchants of Bullshit and so they dump on him. Accept none of it.

J Bowers said...

Ya gotta love Al Gore. I think he's great, and getting better at it, too. Al Gore and the EPA rock.

thanes said...

I've been curious about the rapidity of the denialist posters as well, and I've wondered if there are paid posters googling global warming to post bullshit. Is there any evidence for this? It would be cheaper than all get out for some fossil fuel lobby to spend, say less than 100 k a year to have a couple of full time shills watching the Internet to get bullshit up as a rapid response, but they must have some ads out there or something (or better yet, perhaps a previous employee who quit after reading the truth too much).

Anonymous said...

#1 illustrates a problem I have noticed when talking to people who believe the deniers. What they hear is not what is said to them. Notice that #1 read the article and viewed what was said as an analogy rather than a statement of the fact that many of the same people are involved in denying both that cigarettes cause cancer and that humans cause Global Warming. #1 hears the desperation in trying to get this information across, but hears an analogy instead.

At times one can almost hear the neurons misfiring as they struggle to misunderstand what is said. At other times I picture their thinking as gears binding and the teeth breaking off them.

I think the best reaction to people like #1 is a sense of incredulity when they make statements like that.

Berbalang

badger badger badger said...

Thanes,

Read this:

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/not-a-misquote-a-nonquote/#comment-47918

Scrooge said...

Scientists for the most part are nice furry little bunnies that give people the benefit of the doubt and just try to educate them. I think it would be a good idea if more bunnies grew sharp teeth and simply call the crap what it is and bullshit works.

Anonymous said...

The team on the left side of the field cheers their star players antics. The team on the right laughs and over reacts to that players influence. And the fans in the stands laugh and stay skeptical of the whole show.

Still having problems understanding communication beyond your Rabett hole I see.



Celery Eater

joe said...

From the comments on this story at HuffPo:

"Being passionate about the preventabl­e destructio­n of our environmen­t for the sake of short term profits is hardly "unhinged"­. "

Anonymous said...

When I first heard this recording, I wondered how long it would be before someone edited all the "BS"s out so that Al Gore is apparently caught admitting that "This climate thing, it’s nonsense. Man-made CO2 doesn’t trap heat. It may be volcanoes.” “It may be sun spots.” “It’s not getting warmer.” Watch for it!

And by the way, #1 is full of #2.
Bay Bunny

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

#1 and Celery Eater are like the people who've wallowed in the rear end excretions of a bull for so long that they actually think that the excretions are some sort of gourmet delicacy.

And Bay Bunny, yes, I think I may willing to bet on that.

-- frank

Wiley Coyote said...

Dear Mr. Dr. Professor Rabbit,

While I appreciate the sentiment of Scrooge above, that certain rabbit classes need to grow sharper teeth and be less ambiguous in their identification of fecal materials, I have to object to the overall concept embodied therein, on basic, evolutionarily derived principles of herbivore vs predator dentition, and the associated disruption of the long established natural order that this proposition entails, the unfortunate scene in the movie where Mr. Python looks all over for the grail, notwithstanding. (Some of the pack are still recovering, psychologically, from that).

I often hear of these proposals that certain groups of organisms need to modify certain specified parts of their respective anatomies in some specified way (often involving the enlargement of certain evolutionarily important organs); I object on scientific grounds.

Sincerely,
Wiley

J Bowers said...

Dear Wiley Coyote,
I have to object to your talking utter bollocks. "...and the associated disruption of the long established natural order..." is indicative that you are clueless. If wolves are free to hunt the elks then they will simply eat all of the elks and move on.

Dear Celery Eater,
There are few things, if any, deemed more trustworthy and effective in public communication than straight talk. Al Gore does it well, you do not.

Sincerely.

Anonymous said...

J Bowers,

"There are few things, if any, deemed more trustworthy and effective in public communication than straight talk. Al Gore does it well, you do not."


Yes as evidenced by this:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141269/Favorable-Ratings-Gore-Down-Cheney-Biden-Flat.aspx


Here is some straight talk. You may like Gore, cheerlead and love his efforts, the public does not share your enthusiasm. Deal with it.


And since I must conform to the box you have made for me, yawn, I'll leave you with something to earn my "home".

Mr. Bowers and all who agree that Al Gore is the man and should change nothing in his approach, I agree! Nothing creates more skeptics and inaction in Congress than Gore taking point on CAGW. Thank you Al!



Celery Eater

Scrooge said...

Whenever I get reminded of Monty Python and the holy grail I always think of Jimmy Carter and his run in with a rabbet that seemed to have a bone to pick.

J Bowers said...

Celery Eater,

Since when did Congress in America hold complete sway over the rest of the world? Given the makeup of the 112th and opinion outside of the USA of it (packed with nutters), the less they like Gore the more chance of him being respected elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Bowers,

True, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry certainly are nuts. Or are you referring to the nutters that want us to spend less than we take in?


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater relishes the exquisite taste of fine bovine manure.

In contrast, if one shows him an actual nutritious meal, he'll avoid the meal like the plague.

-- frank

J Bowers said...

Celery Eater,

"Or are you referring to the nutters that want us to spend less than we take in?"

No, I mean the reverse-socialists masquerading under an American flag, who want to rob more from the already struggling middle and working classes and see the loot gets to their already filthy rich patrons.

Anonymous said...

Celery Eater,

Being right isn't a popularity contest. The TRUTH is that Gore is right about all those things, yet your more interested in the 'popularity'. The truth is that you are full of bullshit yourself.

Wiley Coyote said...

Dear Mr. Dr. J Bowers,

Thank you for your reminder of the natural order wherein our cousins the wolves dine on the cervids "and then move on". I suppose we must all move on in life, though I am having somewhat of a difficulty imagining packs of lagomorphs taking down elk before doing so, although Mr. Python seems to have demonstrated that it may well have been possible, at least back in medieval times, which I suppose is not that far fetched, given that Greenland was, according to some, over-run with grapes and Vikings and French castles, and for all we know, part of the Sahara.

I wish to thank celery eater for his adherence to molar dentition, which most assuredly will not upset the long established natural order, and for his ability to use all caps in proclaiming the identification of hypothesized veracities with respect to bovine excrement. We think he has outstanding mental and verbal faculties and would like to invite him to our book club next Thursday have him for dinner afterwards, if this is convenient.

Sincerely,
Wiley

thanes said...

Badger Badger Badger-

Thank you for the link to the thread on Tamino's page. Very helpful. Many more links, and I'm working my way through them, but it is an extensive discussion on an under-explored topic.
For example, there is some poster I have seen hundreds of times called memeMine, who over a few months repeatedly posted and tweaked the same threatening post, over and over, like he or she was honing a particular propaganda line. Still trying to figure out, paid sociopath, or Denialist conspiracy theorist?

EliRabett said...

Hmmm. . . Al Gore was and is subject to a well financed evil campaign of lies. No wonder that the viewers of Fox News think he is a no goodnik. Of course RP Jr. thinks this sort of thing has no effect.

EliRabett said...

Do any of the old timers remember Andrew Langerrrrrr?

One of the paid trolls was caught out on Sci.environment

EliRabett said...

Wiley, of course, is a frequent visitor at the Rabett household. He dropped by this summer but as usual was well fed, having dined on a number of engineering departments. Ms Rabett insists on his wearing a muzzle in the house to protect the young ones and we do take him out to Ray's The Steak.

Pangolin said...

Commenter #1 is invariably part of a boiler room operaton of paid internet responders who particularly latch on to any climate change news posted on any major paper or magazine. It's no accident that the first commenter is ALWAYS a denier when the BBC posts a climate piece.

Think of the staggering profit that 85 million barrels of oil per day yields and remind yourself that serious action on climate change would mean rapidly closing that profit spigot OFF. It means nothing to hire a few hundred, or even a few thousand underpaid typists to constantly search the net for new posts on climate change and post the "talking point o' the day."

Heck, I'm even pretty sure they post "insane liberal o' the day" fake talking points because more than once I've found that crazed, liberal sounding, but false memes have shown up everywhere and vanished in two weeks.

These are people who are willing to start wars and render millions of people into refugees. What are a few lies to an oilman?

J Bowers said...

This Andrew Langer? Looks like another serial reader of 'Atlas Threw His Dummy Out the Pram'. A bit like Rand's puppydog, Alan Greenspan, whose response to "Alan, deregulation's about to casue the markets to collapse!" was, "Let's have more deregulation, then." Guess what happens next - the neolibs and libertarians blame the EPA.

J Bowers said...

"No wonder that the viewers of Fox News think he is a no goodnik.

On Fox's Chairman:

"You know Roger [Ailes] is crazy. He really believes that stuff."
-- Rupert Murdoch to a colleague.

Russell said...

While the identity of b5230294-91bd-11e0-a606-000bcdcb5194 remains a two pipe problem, the gal feeding Al a carrot question near the end of the Aspen webcast is Naomi Oreskes sister

Anonymous said...

"No, I mean the reverse-socialists masquerading under an American flag, who want to rob more from the already struggling middle and working classes and see the loot gets to their already filthy rich patrons."

Ah the unhinged speaks... Anytime you would like to discuss tax policy and how raising taxes will not solve the current problem, let me know.


"Being right isn't a popularity contest."

True, but being right is not enough as you need the citizens of a Republic to pressure the government to act. Of course the left wants the government big and powerful as to act without the consent of the governed. Hmm what happened last time this occurred...hmm let me think...


Celry Eater

Anonymous said...

Shame, the poor denier trolls and drones are ticked at Gore's candid talk, for calling a spade a spade. The truth has hurt their feelings and their their trolling here is evidence of their angst :)

ML

Anonymous said...

I think deniers love Al Gore. No man has created more skeptics than he!



Celery Eater

Anonymous said...

Rabett run logic example..

"After telling Congress to "Put Country before Party" Obama is scheduled to fly to New York City where he will raise money for the Democratic Party at the Ritz Carlton."

Ah the comedy continues..


Celery Eater

EliRabett said...

Ah, CE requires a St. Obama medal to put on his rear view mirror. CE clearly believes that Republicans are scum (and Eli agrees) therefore perfectly allowed to behave like scum, but Democrats, because they are not scum, must be perfect to be taken seriously. GEAFB, or in the spirit of the times, let Eli wish you an Al Gore shout out.

Wiley Coyote said...

Dear Mr. Dr. Professor Rabett,

In addition to his commitment to molar dentition and fondness for a certain non-orange, cultivated member of the Apiaceae (for which there is much to be thankful for residents of the lower part of the food chain), I wish to thank celery eater for his ability to test the ability of the readers of your fine publication--such as for example, myself--to follow various contortions and convolutions unrelated to the actual topic raised, such as for example tax rates and the speaking venues of Mr. Dr. Gore. We also would like to thank him for his stated plans to think, which we are highly in favor of.

The pack sometimes plays a game in which, during the middle of our discussion of say, former Mr. Dr. Professor Gould's opus, one member will interject a statement such as "Where's the missing link then?" or "Why don't armadillos evolve resistance to truck impacts" or best yet, "Keep the government out of religion!", while one member with a stopwatch times how long it is before we get back to whatever of Mr Gould's points we had been discussing. You would be surprised how entertaining this can be, and how difficult it sometimes is to return to the discussion at hand.

Sincerely,
Wiley

Anonymous said...

Eli,

Lame. Obama has done one thing right, approving the Osama raid. Though he countered that with a stupid decision to photo op himself at the return of those recently killed in Afghanistan. Add that these rumors about a movie to be made and released in October 2012, if true he truly becomes scum.


Democrats are scum. Saint Obama of the worst President's Club.

To be fair, Republicans are scum as well as they started the mess and Democrats made it worse.

Mr. Coyote (the person behind the character),

You do realize Wiley E. Coyote was a self-proclaimed supra-genius and that in reality he was stupid?


Gore can be right all he wants, but he still puts more opposing fans in the stands than anyone else. This thread proves all here cannot accept/understand that point and just want to say "Yeah Al you go! It is BS those stupid deniers!"


Enjoy your weekends!


Celery Eater

Pangolin said...

Can you imagine the frothing at the mouth if Gore had championed Alaska-style carbon-tax-and-per-capita-rebate. There would have been screams and claims that Gore was the bastard child of Joseph Stalin.

Of course, there's total silence about St. Sarah Palin taking that cash.

Scrooge said...

Just a thought but since Al Gore typically seemed pretty reserved I mean its hard to get him to smile. I am sure he has the A team working on the reality project. I wonder if saying Bullshit is just a way to get more interest. I hope it works.

J Bowers said...

Celery Eater -- "Gore can be right all he wants, but he still puts more opposing fans in the stands than anyone else. "

Old news, yawn. That's the problem with politics; it's a fluid situation, anything can happen. For instance, the Tea Party popularity is at a record low after holding the American economy to ransom.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Bowers,

"Old news, yawn. That's the problem with politics; it's a fluid situation, anything can happen."


I agree CAGW has a political side and anything can happen, but only if you change tactics when the current ones are not working.


lol at your childish view about holding "the economy ransom". So this fringe group of crazies beat the all powerfull Obama and the Dems. The Dems had complete control of Congress 1/07 - 12/10, the White House 1/09 - present, and 60 seats in Senate 7/09 - 1/10 (then only down to 59). But of course this Tea Party which are groups of Americans exercising their Constitutional rights held the entire economy ransom. LMAO It seems the Dems are pretty weak even in large numbers.

$1.4 trillion = Annual Deficit.

$3.7 trillion = Annual Budget

$70 billion = Annual Revenue increase by removing "Bush Tax cut" for wealthy ($250K+).

$370 billion = Annual Revenue increase by removing all "Bush Tax cuts"


Without actual spending cuts, not reduction in rate of increased spending, the budget will not be balanced.

Cut spending 10% across the board, no exceptions and freeze that spending rate for 3 years anything else is smoke and mirrors and the deficits will continue and the debt will rise.



Celry Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

So Celery Eater's argument is, as usual, that might makes right, and that it's OK for one to spew pure unadulterated bullshit as long as one brings up "THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!!!"

Celery Eater should be more honestly named Bullshit Eater.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Calm down Frank there are lots of facts in my above post. I know the truth is ugly, but please do try to maintain some composure.

And what BS did Tea Party supported members of Congress spew? And how did that hold the economy ransom? Examples please.

So peacable assembly is bad and should be removed via Constitutional Ammendment? Explain.


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Bullshit Eater says,

"there are lots of facts in my above post."

You mean things like how your "facts" are decided by Senatorial procedure? Sounds like bullshit to me!

"And what BS did Tea Party supported members of Congress spew?"

How about Tom McClintock's claim that he discovered climate change by, um, reading about it in a museum? Does that sound bullshitty enough to you?

"And how did that hold the economy ransom?"

You mean, like, how the Tea Party Congressfolks keep using the federal budget as a weapon to defund a certain government agency that makes them look stupid?

"So peacable assembly is bad"

Spreading bullshit is bad. Or do you think that bullshit should be praised simply because it's constitutional?

By the way, you can call "bullshit" by any name you like, but the fact remains that it's bullshit. So there you go, Bullshit Eater.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank = unhinged

I prefer to converse with stable rational people, please grow up and learn to converse like an adult.

Your last post is also devoid of substance and all it contains is declarations by Frank.


Sleep easy tonight, if you can, it will probably take some alcohol to calm you down.



Celery Eater

J Bowers said...

Celery Eater -- "Without actual spending cuts, not reduction in rate of increased spending, the budget will not be balanced."

Which is where a higher progressive taxation would help ease the pain. Atlas can't really shrug because Atlas doesn't really exist. How about 50% over $400,000? It's still less than in 1952.

Wiley Coyote said...

Dear Mr. Dr. Professor Rabbit,

I am so delighted to hear, in addition to his previoulsy mentioned intention to think, that Mr. Dr. Celery Eater is also a firm proponent of conversing with "stable, rational" people and also is in favor of "growing up". I might question his medical advice regarding sleep, but then, it is probably unfair to imagine that one could be an expert on climate change, Al Gore, taxes, the federal deficit, President Obama and his relative position amongst the ranks of former presidents and saints, the constitution, hinges, scum, and, quite a number of things that I may have missed, and sleep apnea specifically or medical science more generally.

Also, I would like to state that I have never at any time heard Mr Eater state "Get the government out of religion", even if he does appear to have have difficulty distinguishing between climate science and government operations.

I think that we may be able to constructively build on these positive developments, and I thank you for your patient fostering thereof.

Sincerely,
Wiley

p.s. I wish to apologize to any armadillos that may have been offended by my previous comment regarding their unfortunate situation on our roadways.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Bowers,

"How about 50% over $400,000? It's still less than in 1952"


According to 2008 IRS tables those making $500K+ per year their total taxable income was $1.272 Trillion. Of which they paid $255 billion in taxes. If you were to tax all of their income at 50% (taking out the graduation of taxing through the income brackets for simplicity) that would generate $293 billion in additional revenue. Although the economic impact, some would argue, would make that number smaller.

So your tax increase is $300 billion, my 10% cut across the board is $370 billion so we are still $730 billion short.

More cuts or shall we go to the Captial Gains rates? Short or long term?



To Wiley,

meh



Celery Eater

EliRabett said...

Like everything that touches celery this is simply cherry picking endpoints. If you go back to 2001, the Bush tax cuts have cost about 2 trillion over ten years, extending them for another ten years would cost 5 trillion according to the Congressional Budget Office

In addition, the unfunded Medicare Part D (prescription drug benefit)costs a bunch, but not as much as was predicted for various reasons, and then there are the unfunded costs of two expeditionary forces (to Afghanistan and Iraq)

A considerable part of the US Debt is internal, e.g. owed to various trust funds, such as the Social Security Trust Fund (about 40%)

So what we have is an external debt that was ballooned in the period between 2001 and 2008 by irresponsible fiscal policies (tax cuts, unfunded spending) and a portion in 2008-2011 as a result of trying to stimulate the economy and reduced revenues due to bad times.

If, for example, Al Gore had been elected by the Supreme Court, we would have entered the 2008 great recession in much better shape with a greatly reduced national debt.

In short Celery grows in swamps.

EliRabett said...

Oh yeh, the rates on the top x percent are strongly affected by the capital gains giveaways as in letting the hedge fund guys use capital gains rates when they have no capital at risk. How do you think they hide the income?

J Bowers said...

Celery Eater,

The way the US tax system works today, the very top earners currently pay near zero percent in tax. I suspect that simply closing loopholes would immediately trump your 10% cuts. In fact, to compensate for the inevitable accountancy shennanigans, the rate for the top 1% (who were by 2007 getting 23.5% of total income, compared to 9% of total income in the mid-70s) should probably be in the region of 80% or even higher. They'll still be able to put enough aside to buy a small island nation or hire Lichtenstein for a month or two, should they so wish.

As for economic impact, Reagan's cuts in tax rates didn't cause the top earners to work any less, i.e., there was no behavioural change. Generally, the self made rich just like to work. When the Rolling Stones left Blighty to avoid paying a 90% marginal rate, they were back a year later and paying a 90% marginal rate.

J Bowers said...

And, yes, you can rent Liechtenstein ($70,000 a night, with customised street signs and a temporary currency thrown in). They're choosy, though, as Snoop Dogg discovered to his disappointment.

David B. Benson said...

Soak the rich.

The only way to go...

Anonymous said...

Eli deals in predictions I deal in actual numbers.


"If, for example, Al Gore had been elected by the Supreme Court, we would have entered the 2008 great recession in much better shape with a greatly reduced national debt."

I see you understand law as much as economics and tax policy, very little.


Mr. Bowers,

Perhaps you can use the actual IRS tax tables where they list the number of returns for each bracket, their income, taxable income, taxes paid and see how different that is from your hand waving "the top 10% pay nothing in taxes". This is getting tiresome.

I see you would rather raise taxes than cut spending. Why anyone would want to give a drunken sailor more money expect him to more fiscally responsible is amusing, to say the least.


Celery Eater

David B. Benson said...

Climate. Climate. Climate.

There I said it, but perhaps this isn't polite company?

David B. Benson said...

Celery Eater --- I prefer a truely progressive income tax as a matter of fairness. The choice of the progressive rate schedule depends upon agree levels of federal spending.

Turns out I also favor severey cuttine back spending for some branches of government, notably the DoD & CIA.

EliRabett said...

Celery really does grow well in bullshit.

Facts: The Republicans screwed everyone with their financial and tax policies,

They screwed everyone with their fantasy about Iraq,

They screwed everyone with their fantasies about science, esp. climate issues, and,

Oh yes they are keeping up their good work.

dhogaza said...

A picture is worth a thousand celery stalks ...

http://mkcreative.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/budget_deficit_or_surplus-2006.gif

David B. Benson said...

EliRabett --- Its possible to overfertilize.

Unlike mushrooms.

Anonymous said...

Dhogaza,

Yes especially when it is current. You do know this is 2011 and not 2006?

http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.html

Look how the deficit has exploded with the Dems in charge of Congress and the White House.


Eli,

Your last post only contains your opinion, no facts are present.

Here are examples of facts:


The Democrats have not passed a Federal Budget for 800+ days (since the 2009 budget that they held until Obama took office).

The only budget submitted by the Democrats was a $3.73 Trillion spend all budget that President Obama submitted, that was voted down 97-0 in the Senate!


Sure there was a fire to put out, quite big one in fact. Unfortunately the Democrats just let it burn and the only offered solution was to throw some gas on it.


Mr Benson,

I am sure Eli is not overfertilized, just void of facts, only rants of a partisan is what you hear from him.

Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

The way Bullshit Eater talks about Obama, he probably thinks that the Global Financial Crisis was caused by Obama's middle name.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

Jeez you are building strawmen all over the place. Obama's middle name is irrelevant, just like your posts, stalking Celery Eater! ha!


Went to your defunct site. Wow I really called it when I said you are deranged!


As I said in the other threads Frank, thank you for the laughs, thank you for not contributing any points that you could back up with facts. Just continued personal attacks on me, which oh hurt me so bad. lol


Celery Eater

J Bowers said...

Celery Eater -- "I see you would rather raise taxes than cut spending. Why anyone would want to give a drunken sailor more money expect him to more fiscally responsible is amusing, to say the least."

Tell that to Warren Buffett.

"While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as “carried interest,” thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they’d been long-term investors.
[...]
The taxes I refer to here include only federal income tax, but you can be sure that any payroll tax for the 400 was inconsequential compared to income. In fact, 88 of the 400 in 2008 reported no wages at all, though every one of them reported capital gains.
[...]
But for those making more than $1 million — there were 236,883 such households in 2009 — I would raise rates immediately on taxable income in excess of $1 million, including, of course, dividends and capital gains. And for those who make $10 million or more — there were 8,274 in 2009 — I would suggest an additional increase in rate.

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It’s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=2&hp

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Bullshit Eater, then in your opinion, what caused the financial crisis, if not Obama's middle name?

Perhaps the financial crisis was caused by the trillion-dollar fiasco known as the Iraq War that was started by none other than President Bush? Oh, but I'm sure that was authorized by Obama's phantom signature, even though it seems that Bush was holding the pen.

Or perhaps the financial crisis was caused by the wanton irresponsibility of the mega-rich, who insist on going on expensive holiday retreats even as they're losing their clients' hard-earned savings? Oh, but no doubt it was because Obama The Antichrist Made Them Do It...

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

conversing with a 17 year deranged poster is now boring, see ya.


Mr Bowers,

Oh Warren spoke so we must listen. So Mr. Buffet is currently skirting the tax laws and you believe him that if Congress will change the tax rates he will pay more? Naive much. You know Warren could be a shining example to al his billionaire friends and just write a check to Uncle Sam, why does it take the law for him to do what is the right thing?



Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Bullshit Eater bullshits:

"conversing with a 17 year deranged poster is now boring, see ya."

Ooh, Bullshit Eater has no 'arguments' left except bullshit personal attacks.

Meanwhile, there are people who haven't forgotten who caused the global financial crisis: the fat cats at AIG and other places who continued to insist going on expensive holidays and giving raises to their failed investment 'experts' even after the crisis destroyed ordinary people's life savings.

(And I sense another bullshit round of "austerity" coming...)

-- frank

J Bowers said...

Celery Eater,

Warren seems to believe that his peers-in-wealth won't write big cheques and is asking Uncle Sam to compel them to. He also points out that the working and middle class are getting killed while the rich kids do good on Wall Street, so it's time for the fat cats to do their bit for a change. It's nothing new. The original Republic expected their fat cats to build things for them without any compensation, given the fat cats benefitted most from the state anyway. I believe there was a POTUS who thought the same, too, and if I recall correctly it wasn't even FDR.

JuliepiWz said...

Badger Badger Badger- Thank you for the link to the thread on Tamino's page. Very helpful. Many more links, and I'm working my way through them, but it is an extensive discussion on an under-explored topic. For example, there is some poster I have seen hundreds of times called memeMine, who over a few months repeatedly posted and tweaked the same threatening post, over and over, like he or she was honing a particular propaganda line. Still trying to figure out, paid sociopath, or Denialist conspiracy theorist?