Wednesday, September 14, 2016

The Round Mound Trying to Be Profound

So Eli understands that Lamarrrrrr Smith held a hearing today to try and justify his pursuit of those nasty Attorney Generals who don't take Donnie Trumps money to stifle investigations.  While there is much fun to be had, Shawn Otto tweeted Eli to a particular give and take between Bill Foster (D-IL) and the only doctoral level scientist in the house, and one Ronald McDonald Rotunda, one of those expert witnesses that the Republicans find in small sectarian law schools with bad rankings and high tuition.

The fun starts with something that Rotunda tried to slip in earlier (have to look for it) about how melting Greenland will lower the sea level (starts at about 2:40).  




Foster's physical intuition is quite good, and Rotunda is pretty much at sea trying to twist things right and right.

Eli has taken an interest in local sea level rise for quite some time and can help.  Eli is a very helpful bunny.  What Rotunda is trying to refer to is work by Jerry Mitrovica and his students.  The long and short of it can be viewed here on YouTube



Chris Mooney had an article on this effect some months ago, the figure below show what will happen if part of Antarctica melt




33 comments:

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

It's a wonderful day in the neighborhood. Can you spell ... tripe?

Here is some more 'sciency' tripe from NPR science author Michaeleen Doucleff. She forgot to mention that Earth was once a gas in space, and before that, a quark gluon plasma. Details like that change everything, dontcha know.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/09/14/493925781/epic-climate-cartoon-goes-viral-but-it-has-one-key-problem

NPR has become the new American leader of science tripe, and Michaeleen Doucleff is now the queen of science tripe. Tripe tastes good. Please pass the tripe, Michaeleen. Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge.

magmacc said...

Bill Foster's understanding and questioning was quite impressive. In contrast Ronald Rotunda's not even half-digested summary of Mitrovica's work was abysmally incompetent. But then that may be why Lamar Smith called him as a witness.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

Eli really really reallllllly hates that bit about “this is our home for the foreseeable future”. This is our home period. Ain’t goin no where and to write what you write gives an out to the idiots.

I'm one of those idiots, Eli. And this is a post about the congressional science committee. So Eli is a hater. I get that.

Without degenerating into colloquial dialects, Eli's home will need to be repopulated with Eli's clan after Eli's clan causes their extinction, and I can't think of any other way to do that without some sort of extraterrestrial refugia for Eli's clan. And I can't think of a better way to do that than having Eli's clan design and construct giant reusable rockets so that Eli's clan can deliver said refugia to some non-terrestrial location. And honestly I can't think of a better way for Eli's clan to prevent Eli's descendant's extinction than to develop the technology of external clan refugia.

Unfortunately, though, Eli's clan is funding a folly called the SLS and Orion, non reusable small launchers and capsules which present no possibility of clan refugia or refugia technology development in the foreseeable future, IF EVER, but I do see other clans developing this technology on their own dime, and learning valuable albeit painful lessons in technology lessons in their efforts to provide Eli's clan terrestrial refugia, as well as extra-terrestial refugia.

Eli's clan's plan seem to be to eat grass and hide in a hole in the ground. At least that's a plan for Eli's clan. My clan's plan is to solve Eli's clan's problem of imminent extinction, and my clan's plan B is to develop that technology through non-terrestrial clan refugia construction. And fortunately, Eli's clan's permanent home possesses a nearby pseudo planet with an interesting orbit and axial tilt. And my clan's plan involves very little of Eli's clan's money.

So no amount of Eli's clan's congressional nonsense will change those plans. Eli's clan should be more grateful for my clan's plan.

EliRabett said...

Confusing a deluded hope with a plan is a noted characteristic of derp denial.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

Giant reusable cryogenic rockets is not a 'hope', Eli, it's now an inevitability, one that now can only be reversed by ... sabotage.

The esteemed science committee can no longer sabotage my clan's plans, and thus they have moved on to attempting to sabotage other plans. Plans that have nothing to do with solving the problems that require detailed plans. And neither can you, Eli, no matter how much you hate the plans. My clan's plans no longer require your clan's money, no matter how many rocket blow up in flight or on the launch pad.

Schrödinger's dog is out of the box and wagging his tail and Maxwell's demon can no longer kill him. Lamar Smith is no longer concerned because suddenly has has other plans for other problems.

However, my clan's problems remain, hence the plans. Your clan's problem seems to be that your clan's plans don't seem to be working. My clan's plans at least work most of the time. That's all that counts.

Bryson said...

Hmmm. Lifeboat fantasies aside, I was particularly unimpressed by the witless witness's confusion of the gravitational effects of Greenland melting with the subsequent isostatic rebound. Foster did well, but it would have been nicer still if he had pointed out that both these effects will increase sea level rise elsewhere due to Greenland's...

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

Bryson, if I had even the slightest inkling that mankind's (sorry womankind humankind) cultural aberrations were solvable, then I would not be promoting a lunar lifeboat. However every time Lamar Smith open's his mouth, I am convinced that a privately funded lunar lifeboat is necessary. Humans are not kind. I'm not even convinced that Lamar Smith is human. Dana Rohrabacher might be interested in that idea. Thankfully I quit watching those hearings entirely.

Russell Seitz said...

Rotunda should receive a Heartland Climate Award as soon as the check clears :

http://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2016/09/and-second-prize-is-two-heartland.html

( if link does not work, please fix , thanky)

Bernard J. said...

Ben Elton wrote the book decades ago. It was called Stark.

E. Swanson said...

I was reminded yet again of mankind's folly as I watched a track hoe ripping the tree stumps out of the lot next to one I own in one of those "get away" gated communities so popular here in Western NC during the last land boom. Being in the "undeveloped" mountains, the community was supposed to have development restrictions which limited the cutting of trees, etc, limitations which were ignored as everything growing on the plot was destroyed so that yet another "country cabin" might be built in the woods for some guy from Florida to use during the oppressive heat and humidity which appears there during the summer.

While I think the Earth may eventually spit out humanity, efforts to build a refuge on the moon suffer from the same problems which have kept mankind from returning the the lunar surface after Apollo. Life on the Moon would be no better than living in a prison, as no one could go outside and play without a suit providing the life support required. Things break and must be replaced, so the colony would need to be entirely self-sufficient, capable of manufacturing everything needed for existence. Besides, would the colony really last the centuries likely required for Earthly life to recover from the radiation or nuclear winter after a nuclear war? Or, how long must they wait before all the other lesser effects reduce humanity back to hunter/gather life, so that the "gods from heaven" might return to begin the cycle all over again? All such ideas are common in space fantasies, but the reality would be more like what happened to the Norse in Greenland after 400 years of "civilization".

No, I submit that if mankind can't get it together to live within the Earth's limits, we're toast...

Bryson said...

ES has the right of it-- if we can't manage to carry on here on Earth, with a breathable atmosphere, fertile soils and water (not to mention significant protection from the sun's full spectrum of radiation), we're unlikely to survive somewhere where we need to somehow produce and sustain enough of these and other essentials on our own.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

That is simply not true. We're doing just fine here, in fact so well that we've overpopulated and overrun a vast majority of the planet.

That's the problem, we're really good at surviving. The problem is that we're no long surviving in a sustainable manner due to severe cultural problems, like, for instance, media, television and religion.

The technological and cultural problems that we have here can ONLY be solved by attempting to survive in space, since clearly there is no motivation to do so here. But I can understand how you can't understand that because you have been indoctrinated by your culture.

BBD said...

Too long in lunar gravity and there's no going back to Earth.

As for nth-generation moon-kids... forget going back to the old country.

Russell Seitz said...

I for one welcome our new alien masters to the Acme Industries lifeboat showroom, where a fine selection of pre-owned Arctic Cities and East River-sized suspension of disbelief bridges are also on offer at competitive prices.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

Fortunately in low gravity environments, higher gravity environments are quite easy to construct. And there are also numerous asteroids and the planet Mars. Plus, get this, technology advances at an extremely rapid pace nowadays. Again, I understand your cultural indoctrination problem. It's almost like you selectively believe that certain simple technological problems are insoluble.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

I might add that the problems of survival on Earth are exacerbated by the fact that it is extremely easy for an intelligent organism to survive on a paradise terrestrial planet like Earth. Until it gets crowded. Space provides an alternative to both of those problems.

BBD said...

hexygabble

Fortunately in low gravity environments, higher gravity environments are quite easy to construct.

No they aren't :-) And Mars is a long, long way away.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

So says some guy named BBD on the intertubz.

Centripetal force? Reactive centrifugal force? Tension? Circular hyperloop trains? Pressure? Giant gyroscopes? I can supply you with some wikilinks if you need some help with the math.

Your understanding of basic fundamental physics seems woefully substandard.

EliRabett said...

Day dream believers are fatal to the race.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

Why would you care, Eli, when your tax dollars are no longer going to be paying for my day dreams? You should be more concerned about what Lamar Smith has in mind for your tax dollars, since he and his ilk have already wasted upwards of $50 billion dollars of your tax money pursuing their folly of their wet dream of human space 'exploration'. This is private space development now. Can you see the difference? I doubt it, if all you know about it is from what you read at NASAWatch.

BBD, Mars is just far enough away to keep intellectual fascists like yourself from invading. That's a feature, not a bug. The last 35 years of human history is all I need to know to inform me that humanity is not particularly interested or capable if solving their carbon crisis and cultural problems with technology and/or policy. Neither will suffice anymore. Therefore I am pursuing other options.

The nuclear option is looking better every day. I'm not taking reactors.

BBD said...

Centrifuges in spaaaaace!

With everyone on them all the time. Buried under the moon. As you say, easy. A trivial engineering challenge.

BBD, Mars is just far enough away to keep intellectual fascists like yourself from invading.

I'll be there :-) How hard can it be?

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

Ok, BBD, so you admit it's not a mathematical impossibility, it doesn't violate any laws of physics, and it's not a technical impossibility. Do you think it will be harder than building up a global airline transportation industry in 100 years? Or how about a global skyscraper construction industry in 100 years? Or a global nuclear power industry in 50 years? I can see you aren't 1) a critical thinker and 2) willing to make substantive comments. But I knew that already from your previous comments. You realize I'm just dicking with you for personal entertainment right? After all, this is the internet, derived from a global semiconductor industry built up over 50 years.

BBD said...

You realize I'm just dicking with you for personal entertainment right?

Yes, of course. I wouldn't do you the discourtesy of taking what you say seriously.

Russell Seitz said...

Understanding of substandard physics is basically woeful, and universally prevalent , which is why the Acme salesroom does a roaring business on the web

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

The second you make any substantive and/or serious mathematical, scientific, engineering or technical commenta here, BBD, I will take your unqualified opinions seriously. Until then it's just snark and great entertainment. For me at least. The mileage of others may vary.

E. Swanson said...

Long Char, all your great advances depended on the natural life support from the Earth's bio systems and the natural resources which we have been able to exploit. Going to rough it on the Moon? You might want a blast furnace to make steel. If you want cotton socks and undies, you would want to build a rather large greenhouse, complete with atmosphere. If you want plastics and other petrochemicals, you might be out of luck, given that there's no oil or natural gas. You are gonna need a silicon foundry and chip fab plant and a complete machine shop to repair the robots when they wear out. You gonna take up sewing to make your new cloths, if so, where do the needles come from? Same for the hypodermic needles and syringes for poking you when you get sick form some new form of life which mutates from that which you brought with you, assuming you have a complete medical establishment and lab setup to provide the answers to the new attack.

There's a big difference between a colony and a totally sustainable society living in isolation...

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

That's the old way of doing things, Eric, the new way of doing things is called 'condensed matter physics'. And technological development doesn't operate that way. Colonization is a gradual process.

But I'm not going to try to explain it to you because apparently you haven't done the slightest bit of research on this subject. When you get at least superficially up to speed on the subject get back to me.

The Earth was once a colony of hot radioactive nuclides. Look at it now. The moon is just a nearby place with gravity and lots of dirt for shielding. Useful atoms and higher and lower gravity may be found elsewhere as well. Your arguments are naive almost beyond belief.

It's almost as if you are culturally indoctrinated or something. The only limits to space development I see is the financial and moral collapse of civilization. Oops, sorry, I forgot, that was the reason for doing this anyways. So really, the only limit here is ... time.

E. Swanson said...

Long Char, You are correct in one sense. Most of my experience building satellites was 45 years ago, though I did a bit more some 30 years back.

Just think, now days we can hop on the space elevator and ride up to geosynchronous orbit, then take the shuttle to the moon, all in an afternoon. It's truly amazing what technology has produced these past few decades. Why, who would ever have thought that our Iphones would be powered by tiny fusion reactors, when in the bad old days last year, they could use only lithium batteries which had to be recharged! The rate things are progressing, there will be billions of humans spread thru the cosmos by the time a new baby grows old! What a wonderful future our grand technology offers humanity, believe me! No need to worry about Peak Oil or AGW! Would I lie to you?? Gotta Go, it's nap time. (This delusion is approved by DJ Thrumpinski)

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

That's a little more substantive, Eric, but it doesn't seem like you are properly parsing my snark. I grew up with the SSEC and the engineering research building in my backyard, you know that, right? We've come a long way since TIROS and ATS-1, haven't we? Or have we?

On September 27th you can tell me more about my crackpot day dreams.

jrkrideau said...

That video was NOT an Onion production?

Do Lamarr Smith and others of that committee go out of their way to confirm that they are fools or does it just come naturally to them?

In any case, I just checked my elevation and I'm at 93 metres.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

This has been going on for a long time. That they have moved on to IT and economics and not science and technology, is a good thing. But alas, the damage is already done. These videos are just evidence that will be used against them in very near future Nuremberg trials, and it's far easier than having to leak court ordered secrecy through investigative journalism by British newspapers. That's why they are furiously passing laws giving themselves and others permanent immunity from prosecution.

11c4d3c4-984f-11e4-a303-1f6e959502b1 said...

Hi Eli,

This is your favorite raflucer, JD Ohio. In a post I made at Lucia's, you stated (comment 150144 http://rankexploits.com/musings/2016/does-hillary-clinton-have-serious-health-problems-a-real-question-not-an-accusation/#comment-150317):

...."Eli wants to discuss your rotten judgement opening this can of crap, and crap it is. You want crap go read the stupid, illiterate letter that Trump;s supposed physician wrote. But before you start on Hillary Clinton’s health, how about Donald Trumps obvious dementia and why does he claim not to drink, a sure sign of liver disease."

Do you wish to admit the mistake you made in this comment. As part of the post, it became clear how extensively doctors for Roosevelt, JFK and Paul Tsongas, during his 1992 campaign had lied. In fact, a medical historian,

..."Dr. Jacob Appel, an assistant professor at Mount Sinai School of Medicine who has studied the medical histories of candidates on the campaign trial. “No campaign is likely to release a letter stating its candidate is significantly ill or impaired.” See http://www.vox.com/2016/9/11/12882602/hillary-clinton-pneumonia-health Since, it is clearly the case that doctors treating Presidents cannot be trusted, I believe it is clear that it is reasonable to discuss the health of Clinton. Do you agree now that my post was reasonable?

JD
PS I am posting here because you never came back to Lucia's.

8c7793aa-15b2-11e5-898a-67ca934bd1df said...

Haven't you heard? Lying is legal in America. And now, Lamar Smith has institutionalized it in the science committee. I guess that's the price one pays for freedoms. Tea bagger bloggers are notorious for it, especially when it comes to science.