Thursday, May 17, 2012

Steve Napalms Another Tree

In the comments at Climate Audit as relayed to Eli by Stoopit.
Steve, I’m horrified by your slipshod work. You did not define what you compare, what dataset used in each case, how data were processed, and what was the reason for that, what limitation there are, what kind of additional information you need to know. Why didn’t you ask me for all the details? You even aren’t ashamed of using information from stolen letters.

Do carelessness, grubbiness, dishonourableness are the necessary concomitants of your job?

With disrespect…

Rashit Hantimirov
UPDATE:  To follow this up a bit, part of Steve's game is splitting, and his target after Michael Mann has been Keith Briffa.  To split the Yamal Russians off from Briffa would have been a major accomplishment, and the beginning of the letter is a strong hint that there has been an ongoing correspondence.  However, this letter is in the last straw category.  Eli suspects that Hantimirov has been trying to tell McIntyre for a while that Steve's card forcing act sucks, but in a constructive way.  He now recognizes the futility of that, coupled with another baseless attack on his colleagues Keith Briffa.

One further point.  McIntyre hauled out the old bleat that
As to the CRU emails, I do not know that they were “stolen”. Many people believe that they were released by someone within the University. Nor was any disrespect shown to you in the quotation from the email, which showed you in a professional light.
which, of course, neglects the fact that employee theft is the largest source of loss in most stores.  Whoever stole the Emails, whether inside or outside the University, stole them.


Jeffrey Davis said...

"Do carelessness, grubbiness, dishonourableness are the necessary concomitants of your job?"

I wish I spoke Russian.

Anonymous said...

"Steve Napalms Another Tree"

...and in trying to put the fire out ends up just pissing on his own boots.

Bernard J. Hyphen-Anonymous XVII, Esq.

Anonymous said...

For those not familiar with the goings-on, Rashit Hantimirov is one of the two researchers who went out into the field to gather and process the data McIntyre used in the first place. (check out the brief history over at RealClimate). Wow, that's a pretty significant knuckle-rap.


Anonymous said...

Dr. Jay Cadbury, phd.

Hmm, since Eli posted that, I am going to make a fake post here at some point as either

Gavin Schmidt

Michael Mann

James Hansen

just to see if Eli also allows people to post using real professional names.

Phil Clarke said...

Dear Cadbury's Flake

Even the careless, grubby and dishonourable McIntyre believes the post is legit....

Neven said...

I sent him an email this morning in a pleasant tone. I thought that I’d sent him one notifying him of the post as follows:

Thanks again. I’ve done a post at Climate Audit on this . If I’ve made any errors of interpretation, I’d be happy to correct. Regards, Steve Mc

However, when I looked in my Sent folder, I hadn’t sent it, it was stuck in Drafts.

What a gem!

a_ray_in_dilbert_space said...

Hey, Jaybird, why not? You masquerade as a PhD on a daily basis--and before that you masqueraded as a human.

ligne said...

Neven: honest, officer! i swear it's in the post!

andrew adams said...

As to the CRU emails, I do not know that they were “stolen”. Many people believe that they were released by someone within the University.

The second point would not necessarily contradict the first.

Anonymous said...

All should read the Yamal Yawner Real Climate thread.


Anonymous said...

"Do carelessness, grubbiness, dishonourableness are the necessary concomitants of your job?'

Eerily reminiscent of another era "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

Of course, the answer to the former was "yes" and to the latter "no".


Steve Bloom said...

Describing McI's supposed avocation as a "job" is a point not to be missed.

Errata: Eli, doubtless the Biafrans will be upset at the update. Maybe Briffa too. :)

EliRabett said...


Anonymous said...


Given Mac's obsession with Gavin Schmidt, it's more like a "gavocation".


Anonymous said...

Dr. Jay Cadbury, phd.

The emails were not stolen if the person who outed them was one of the correspondents in the actual emails.

Furthermore, I still say that the comment is a fake, I would be surprised if Dr. Hantimirov is so grammatically inept.

J Bowers said...

Well, in the complete and utter absence of any evidence whatsoever that the emails were disseminated by one of the authors, I guess they were stolen.

Oh, and there isn't any individual correspondent who is an author in every single email. So the implication is.....?

Rattus Norvegicus said...

J Bowers,

Of course it has to be a conspiracy by all of the authors of the emails to throw the good Dr. off the scent!

Or something like that...

Anonymous said...

Jay Cadbury clearly has never met a Russian, nor has ever had to review a paper written by Russians.

Or, for that matter, seen Hantimirov's e-mails to Briffa and co...


Anonymous said...

Dr. Jay Cadbury, phd.


Oh, and there isn't any individual correspondent who is an author in every single email. So the implication is.....?

So I would say that if you were to email me right now Jbowers, if I forwarded the message you sent me to somebody else, I wouldn't consider it stealing.

Anonymous said...

I noticed this same doubt about the Hantemirov comment at ClimateAudit. It's bizarre how many people doubt that someone involved in the conflagration would comment at another involved parties blog in direct response to an apparent misuse of their data. "THIS CAN'T BE THE REAL HANTEMIROV, CAN IT??? I SUSPECT FOUL PLAY!" The eye-rolls induced would be enough to power a car for a cross-country jaunt.


Phil Clarke said...

But Dr J, the climategate mails wwere not simply forwarded. They were collated, filtered, and an attempt made to hack the RealClimate website and deposit them there....

Somewhere along this trail, numerous criminal acts must have been committed. Check out the UK Computer Misuse Act 1990

IInduch shoteda

J Bowers said...

"...if I forwarded the message you sent me to somebody else, I wouldn't consider it stealing."

But they'd probably blush.

BTW, folks, Heartland own goal. Coming to billboards in Chicago very, very soon...

Steve Bloom said...

Still a hanging Briffra at the end of the first paragraph of the update, Eli.

willard said...

Speaking of Heartland, Steve relates his own impressions:

> Heartland is a very convenient target for enviro-activists. They’ve inflated its role, an inflation that Heartland has readily accepted.

He also tells some stories there, for instance how in 2010 he "asked Linzen and others for support" to make Heartland remove some inflammatory ad. It seems that only when Linzen did threaten not to go, they removed their ad.

There is also a bit about the F word.

Steve Bloom said...

And of course HI is a little unusual among wingnut think tanks in that its climate-related work is entirely about shifting the Overton Window, which causes me to wonder if all of this attention is necessarily a good thing.

willard said...

Tony smells something:

> “Comment “appears to be genunine”. I’m not sure of this. [...] We see plenty of examples of setting up dead drop gmail accounts to bomb somebody…Gleick for example.

John Mashey said...

Unsurprisingly ...
having studied this extensively, in is absolutely clear that Heartland has done everything it could to be the uber-thinktank for climate anti-science, including sending out E&CN to all legislators in US, collecting a bunch into it's own mini-ALEC, funding other groups, doing all these conferences, etc.

From Bast's own requests for funds, one can see the sales pitch given to funders as to why they would do more than the Washington, DC guys.

CEI is still there, but GMI is a shadow of its former self, and CATO has done much less on the surface, anyway.

So, it isn't that environmentalists have over-emphasized HI, there is a multi-decade history of HI fighting hard to grow its PR/lobbying business (oops, it's nationally recognized nonprofit nonpartisan research.)

J Bowers said...

John Mashey -- "collecting a bunch into it's own mini-ALEC"

As I'm sure you're aware, John, they don't need a mini-ALEC, Bast being president of ALEC with Jim Lakely alongside him as Managing Editor. One of parent State Policy Network's utilities seemes to be to distribute and promote member materials from all fifty states.

willard said...

Oh, and speaking of activism:

> Most small businessmen are not particularly interested in politics and do not have the time to engage in it. Rather than lobby like activist groups, they will simply move. As a citizen who is not interested in moving, I think it is an important economic issue for our province and somehow politicians have to come to grips with it.

It seems that in 1991 the word "activist" was not that bad.

Or perhaps it's just "enviro-activist" that's bad.

In any case, science is corrupt.


John Mashey said...

J Bowers:

I don't think that LEAD411 site is a credible source; I've seen it before.

This is the real ALEC werbsite. Compare. Search for Bast or Lakely.

See also Wikpedia entry.

J Bowers said...

@ John Mashey

Lead411 say they verified Bast and Lakely at ALEC on 10-20-11, and you can apparently get an ALEC email address from them. NetProspex also lists Bast as President of ALEC. According to WorldCat, Bast's relationship with ALEC goes back to c.1991 when ALEC published a book he co-authored. However, Google Books shows the Hoover Institution as publishing the book in 2003. Maybe everyone's just getting very confused by the intricate web of interconnected names and stink tanks?

J Bowers said...

P.S. @ John Mashey

The ALEC website doesn't list a President at all, but their website does list, for example, Michael Bowman and John Stephenson, which tallies with Lead411's list, although others don't seem to. But you may well be correct, because ALEC is based in DC, while Lead411 puts their address in Chicago. Perhaps it's HI's membership of ALEC that's causing the confusion, and Lead411 et al correctly see ALEC as the parent group, and therefore Bast and Lakely are therefore listed in the ALEC executive? Ben Domenech is a name at HI which I can't cross reference with ALEC.

So, I'll retract Bast being President of ALEC. But he is President within ALEC ;)

John Mashey said...

Regardless of the exact relationship, if you do a full search in PDF @ Fake science... of ALEC or Exchange ... you get quite a few hits. They are definitely close.