Sunday, November 06, 2011

Happy Climate Change Denial Season

From the NY Times, by Brian McFadden

85 comments:

Neven said...

Aren't cartoons supposed to be satire?

cRR Kampen said...

There He is... http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/07/sea-ice-news-rapid-re-refreeze-of-the-arctic-in-october-40-faster-than-normal/ .

Russell said...

The best I could do was sketch an office party on Vanderbilt Avenue, across town from the Times:

http://i41.tinypic.com/mc6sdj.jpg.html

Anonymous said...

There's no scientific evidence
--by Horatio Algeranon

There's no scientific evidence,
That warming hasn't stopped
Nor is there any affirmation
That aliens haven't dropped,
From spaceships up above
And made to us their love.

There's no definitive proof
That Elvis ain't around
Or that he ever even left
And was buried underground,
Where worms have permeated
The King, as some have stated.

There's no rationale for believing
That Big Foot isn't real
And isn't doing TV ads
That sell his sex appeal,
Dressing up in Calvin Klein
That beastly body to define.

There's no convincing argument
That fairies aren't true
That Peter Pan ain't really real
And Tink and Wendy too
That Captain Hook was just a mime
Acting for a lousy dime.

There's no scientific evidence
That warming hasn't paused
Lagged, slowed down, or whatever
(Don't ask about the cause)
Our data show The Pause, in fact
And Monckton plots the trend exact.

Anonymous said...

No one denies that the climate changes. In fact when it snows less than expected, the climate has changed. When it snows more than expected, the climate has changed. When it is hotter than expected, when it is cooler than expected, when it rains more, when it rains less, more hurricanes, fewer hurricanes all point to a changing climate.


Each camp entrenched in their positions, as time marches on and will pick a side, but not today.



Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Indeed Celery Eater. No one denies that Abraham Lincoln died.

Let me ask you: 'Was Lincoln stabbed in the chest?' You'll have to answer 'no'. And therefore, we can conclude that Lincoln wasn't murdered, and the 'Lincoln assassination' theory is a hoax!

Anyway, if you answered 'yes' to my question, you'll be lying! And if you gave any other answer, clearly you're trying to engage in spin!

Now stop spinning and answer the key question that'll tell us once and for all whether Lincoln was indeed assassinated: Was Lincoln stabbed in the chest?

-- frank

Neven said...

No one denies that the climate changes. In fact when it snows less than expected, the climate has changed. When it snows more than expected, the climate has changed. When it is hotter than expected, when it is cooler than expected, when it rains more, when it rains less, more hurricanes, fewer hurricanes all point to a changing climate.

Now that is satire!

Anonymous said...

Was Lincoln stabbed in the chest?

No he was shot in the head.


Now that is satire!


No those are scenarios that have been used to prove the climate is changing the last few years.



Celery Eater

Mark said...

Please don't feed the troll.

Anonymous said...

Troll [Trohl]
noun

1. a person who who particpates in a conversation, but I do not agree with their views and I have nothing to say on the topic myself.

2. a mythical creature often out-smarted by hobbits, but never by rabetts.

3. a person who comments on a "rival" tribe's blog, but does not participate in the box making nor conforms to the consensus.


Celery Eater

J Bowers said...

How Skeptics and Trolls View Global Warming

Anonymous said...

J Bowers makes great boxes, even lives in one.




Celery Eater

Anonymous said...

Now which panel speaks to what our dear Judith is up to?

David B. Benson said...

Do Celery Eaters live in Yellow Submarines?

Mark said...

From the Urban Dictionary:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Anonymous said...

Horatio always thought selary eaters lived in bureaucracies.

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater:

"Was Lincoln stabbed in the chest?"

"No"--

OK, stop right there, stop right there, stop right there. Don't say a word more, because clearly anything else you say is only for the purpose of spinning away from the "no" answer! So, my friends, let's ask ourselves again:

"Was Lincoln stabbed in the chest?"

"NO!!!!!!!!"

Therefore, we the jury hereby pronounce the 'Lincoln assassination' theory to be an utter and complete fraud! Case closed!

And now, with the same impeccable logic, we proceed to proclaim global warming to be a fraud...

-- frank

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Meanwhile: the SwiftHacker appears again.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

How can Global Warming (climate) be a fraud?

You seem a little bit excited, almost unhinged.


More box making. Such insecure little bunnies.


Celery Eater

Anonymous said...

Mark,

Per your definition of troll then surely Frank is one, agree?


Of course not, we all pick sides which provides us some level of bias. Some sides have a "purity" in their bias, which is quite a blinding force.

Time marches on.

Celery Eater

Holly Stick said...

Ah - nice catch there, Frank.

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater:

"You seem a little bit excited, almost unhinged."

"More box making. Such insecure little bunnies."

"Some sides have a 'purity' in their bias, which is quite a blinding force."

"Time marches on."

Two words: Projection much?

-- frank

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Holly Stick:

Actually I came across the "RC" comment via Bishop Hill's blog. Just a clarification...

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

Nope I do not "projection" much.

Do not use bold, caps,and many many !!!!!!!!!!!


I answer questions, even the silly ones you ask, I see you tend to avoid those.

So indeed this was not a case of projection as all the evidence above clearly shows.

I have clearly stated my positions on the post's topic, just because you fail to acknowledge that and try to put me in a prepared box so you can scream denier or whatever, really is not my problem.


You are funny and easy to laugh at, that much is appreciated.


Celery Eater

David B. Benson said...

Horatio --- Of course!

Hank Roberts said...

a transcript of a speech delivered by Bill Moyers at the 40th anniversary celebration of Public Citizen
http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152949/bill_moyers%3A_our_politicians_are_money_launderers_not_too_different_from_tony_soprano_/?page=entire

"... on August 23, 1971, a corporate lawyer named Lewis Powell – a board member of the death-dealing tobacco giant Philip Morris and a future Justice of the United States Supreme Court – sent a confidential memorandum to his friends at the U. S. Chamber of Commerce. We look back on it now as a call to arms for class war waged from the top down.

Let’s recall the context: Big Business was being forced to clean up its act.... In l970 President Richard Nixon put his signature on the National Environmental Policy Act .... Nixon then agreed to the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency. Congress acted swiftly to pass tough new amendments to the Clean Air Act and the EPA announced the first air pollution standards. There were new regulations directed at lead paint and pesticides. Corporations were no longer getting away with murder.

And Lewis Powell was shocked – shocked! – at what he called “an attack on the American free enterprise system.” Not just from a few “extremists of the left,” he said, but also from “perfectly respectable elements of society,” including the media, politicians, and leading intellectuals. Fight back, and fight back hard, he urged his compatriots. ... through “careful long-range planning and implementation, in consistency of action over an indefinite period of years, in the scale of financing available only through joint effort, and in the political power available only through united action and united organizations.”

... he was pointing America toward plutocracy, where political power is derived from the wealthy and controlled by the wealthy to protect their wealth. As the only countervailing power to private greed and power, democracy could no longer be tolerated....."

Hank Roberts said...

and from http://www.davidbrin.blogspot.com/

== Brief Political Stuff ==
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WFdSuutwF50/Tq89rXCmxvI/AAAAAAAAAhU/ACXnSwxtcSw/s1600/Scudder.jpg

Sorry, but if we’re to prevent Nehemia Scudder... (Heinlein called 2012 his year!) .. we are all gonna have to get more active.  And some of you must wake up.

Read this. Our civil war is no longer left-vs-right. It is about bewildered American pragmatists and a "side" that's gone mad. "Mike Lofgren recently retired from a lengthy career as an esteemed Capitol Hill republican staffer a respected, knowledgeable figure. Read  Lofgren wrote for Truth Out, published yesterday with this headline: “Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult.” How I miss Goldwater & Buckley!

Hank Roberts said...

"... OpenCPU provides an interface to the popular open-source statistical package R, enabling the user to perform calculations and create publication-quality or web-embeddable visualizations via standard web requests...."
hat tip to Metafilter user "Blazecock Pileon"
you might know what to do with this.

susan said...

Algeranon, thanks.

this is such a good place, don't be kidnapped by boring CE.

Russell, entertaining as usual.

Good cartoons, since we're in the mood:
http://images2.dailykos.com/i/user/312562/Kos-20.jpg

found at UCS, public version here:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/06/climate-change-fact-or-fraud-conference-postponed/

Russell said...

Is a few folks out to crucify Arnold for killing their pet snake really grounds for talking about a 'cult?'

Anonymous said...

Yes Susan the Dailykos where Kos says "Screw Them" to four veterans after they are shot in the head, dragged through the street and hung from a bridge. Yes the Kos who posted contact and address information of teenage girls on his website for political purpose.

That is not boring, just truly disgusting as are any persons who support a most despicable person like Markos.


I'll take your me being boring as a compliment, at least I am not a foul disgusting mean little POS like Markos.


Celery Eater

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry Kos did not post the textual contact information of teenage girls, he posted their photos!

http://www.mediaite.com/online/weinergate-zealotry-on-right-and-left-exposes-underage-girls-to-risk/

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/special-reports/2011/01/special-report-profile-democratic-power-broker


Promotion, support or reference of Kos is an indication of either being extremely forgiving (being a good lefty and all) or you as Kos will do anything to promote yourself or your message.

Truly pathetic Susan, pathetic.


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater, it's easy for people like you to wax all moralistic when you can completely ignore your own moral failings.

Maybe when you start looking at the moral failings of people your side, then your moralistic sermons may have some substance. Otherwise, TFSU.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

Please enlighten me to my moral failings and please show where someone mentioned or posted any other figure other than Kos who has moral failings that I failed to condemn.

What a weak arguement.

Reminder those four veterans one was a former Navy SEAL and three were fathers. And Frank says that you cannot make metion of this because you may have some moral failings yourself or know of someone who does and you must list ALL of them before you can criticize.

Frank on this Veterans Day and Marine Corps Birthday (yesterday) you have truly disgusted this veteran. I am ashamed to even know that you exist.


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

"Please enlighten me to my moral failings"

If you even need to ask such a question, then you're doing it wrong.

Being a veteran doesn't make you a saint. If you think you're a saint, then you're doing it very wrong.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

I do not think I am a saint. I have moral failings, just not on the scale of Kos. The blackness in his heart must be very dark indeed.

You made the claim that I have moral failings, what are they?

or

In Frank's world everyone has moral failings so there is no wrong in the world, because everyone is wrong, falls short or has a moral failing and they all must be equal.

Quite a hole you are in Frank. It really is not that hard to say that Kos is a vile hatefull, spitefull, PoS. It is rather obvious, no matter what your projected image of me might be.



Celery Eater

susan said...

Nobody can "vote" on the planet. It will "vote" last. Nobody can cancel reality, no matter what they believe. Distractionalists hope that people will trust their misquotes instead of looking at the original.

These rants feed on responses, so please leave it - do as I say, not as I do. Our poor host has been colonized by one of the clever parasites who attempt to kidnap real conversation.

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

"I have moral failings, just not on the scale of Kos."

As in, you think it's OK to say "Screw Them" to people who were killed and hung from a bridge -- but only if they were not veterans? (After all, you were making a lot of hay about how the victims were, omigosh, veterans. So, one could infer that this was precisely what you were upset about.)

And, care to explain how Kos's behaviour has anything to do the science of climate?

-- frank

Anonymous said...

No Frank, just listing the facts that they were veterans, that is all. I also mentioned they were fathers would you like to point that out as well? I am "upset" because what he said and how he acted was inhuman. BTW Kos is also a veteran.

What about the posting pictures of 16 year old girls on his website, cannot wait to hear your arguements in favor of that.

So you are not upset that four men are brutally killed and Kos says "Screw Them" and all is OK, got it.

So you are OK with Kos posting pictures of 16 year old girls on his website for politics, got it.

I think we all have learned a great deal about you Frank and what borders you have with morality and humanity.


Care to explain how this entire post has anything do with the SCIENCE of climate?


Jeez talk about tribalism. Keep defending and supporting Kos and I will continue to point out my opinion of him whenever and wherever I find him mentioned.



Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater:

"No Frank, just listing the facts that they were veterans"

It's clear, from the way you kept harping about the "veterans, veterans, veterans" thing, that you were upset because the victims were veterans.

But what if the victims were, say, climate scientists? Will the behaviour you condemn suddenly become the very epitome of righteous retribution? Marc Morano has repeatedly posted e-mails addresses of climate scientists -- is that morally acceptable to you? Anna Maria-Arabia and other climate scientists and climate campaigners are receiving rape threats directed at their children -- is that morally acceptable to you?

And misrepresenting climate scientists' findings without actually leading people to the scientists' actual literature -- is that morally acceptable to you too? It must be, since that's exactly what you were doing in your first comment on this thread. As Susan said: "distractionalists" like you "hope that people will trust their misquotes" of climate science "instead of looking at the original."

I dare you to point out the precise sources of your statements: "No one denies that the climate changes. In fact when it snows less than expected, the climate has changed. When it snows more than expected, the climate has changed. When it is hotter than expected, when it is cooler than expected, when it rains more, when it rains less, more hurricanes, fewer hurricanes all point to a changing climate."

-- frank

Anonymous said...

The answer to your first four questions are no. See the difference Frank no one on here quoted or used those sources to support their position, if they had I would have made similar objections.

Why do you get so upset when someone mentions veteran, seems quite the visceral reaction, I see why you like Kos. Of course I was upset that in addition to being humans, husbands, fathers they were also veterans.

I did not try to quote anyone on this thread.


The precise sources of my statements are me. I tire of you Frank I am not going on a Google hunt for you, if you cannot remember stories related to all my statements as to what has been claimed as part of a changing climate that is your problem. I tire of Frank projecting onto me what Frank would do, I am not you Frank, nor would I ever want to be anything like you.

Will your next post contqain a double-dog dare? lol

For the record (again) the evidence is overwhelming that the climate has warmed since 1850.

Celery Eater

Anonymous said...

Susan,

This post was about a comic strip, glad to know what you consider serious discussion.


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

"The precise sources of my statements are me."

That's not an answer, and you know it.

"See the difference Frank no one on here quoted or used those sources to support their position"

No, the difference is that you do not dare to mention your precise sources. Why is this, Celery Eater? Are you afraid that the sources of your misinformation, once revealed, will turn out to have even more serious moral failings than the alleged moral failings of "leftists"?

Do you want to have the freedom to lob bogus and irrelevant ad hominem attacks on other people, while you hide your sources to prevent the same kind of attack against your statements?

Why can't you cite your sources? What are you afraid of?

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

There are no sources other than me. I wrote the words, they are not anyone else's. So I have cited my sources.

I have not made any statements to the general moral failings of leftists as a group.

I fail to see how attacking Kos for his words and actions is bogus.

Do you always make things up and argue against fantasy?


Why do you make things up? What do attribute statements to me that I did not make?


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater:

"There are no sources other than me. I wrote the words, they are not anyone else's. So I have cited my sources."

Your word games aren't fooling anyone. It's clear you're not getting your climate science information directly from actual climate scientists. So then tell us, where are you getting your climate science information from?

Why can't you tell us your sources? What are you afraid of?

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Still running my paragraph:

"No one denies that the climate changes. In fact when it snows less than expected, the climate has changed. When it snows more than expected, the climate has changed. When it is hotter than expected, when it is cooler than expected, when it rains more, when it rains less, more hurricanes, fewer hurricanes all point to a changing climate."

through Google (maybe Bing?)trying to find the "true" source? lol


Well this veteran, on Veteran's Day, is going to watch some veteran movies about veterans. Like nails on a blackboard to you Frank?


Happy Veterans Day!!

Happy 236th USMC!



Celery Eater

Anonymous said...

Frank,

You strike no fear in me. I have nothing to be afraid of.


So when I said that the climate has warmed since 1850 and that the evidence is overwhelming I did not get that from climate scientists?


Oh you must disagree with me, because I have to be a denier. Well Frank disagree with the above and do not forget to cite all your sources.


Oh I get it, if it snows less than normal over a period of time the climate is NOT changing. If it snows less than normal over a period of time the climate is NOT changing. That is Frank's position.


hahahahaha @you Frank. You are a joke.



Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater:

For a supposed "veteran", you sure behave like a weaselly coward.

I'll just repeat my questions:

Your word games aren't fooling anyone. It's clear you're not getting your climate science information directly from actual climate scientists. So then tell us, where are you getting your climate science information from?

Why can't you tell us your sources? What are you afraid of?

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

Oh wow Frank "supposed" and coward.



So when I said that the climate has warmed since 1850 and that the evidence is overwhelming I did not get that from climate scientists?


Oh you must disagree with me, because I have to be a denier. Well Frank disagree with the above and do not forget to cite all your sources.


Oh I get it, if it snows less than normal over a period of time the climate is NOT changing. If it snows more than normal over a period of time the climate is NOT changing. That is Frank's position.


(above edited to replace 2nd "less" with "more")



Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

me: "For a supposed 'veteran', you sure behave like a weaselly coward."

Celery Eater: "Oh wow Frank 'supposed' and coward."

Yes, and I stand by my words. Coward, thy name is Celery Eater.

You know full well that you're getting your "climate science" from individuals with questionable morals such as Marc Morano, Christopher Monckton, James Bast, Andrew Bolt, etc., etc., etc.

But you don't dare to mention any of their names, because you want maintain your "Markos Moulitsas is a political predator!" attacks even as you continue to get your questionable "science" from questionable individuals.

In this thread you exhibit exactly zero of the qualities that befit a worthy war veteran. You exhibit neither courage, nor precision, nor responsibility, nor intelligence. What makes you think you have the right to be called a proud veteran?

Coward, thy name is Celery Eater.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

Call me all the names you like shows more of who you are, a joke as I said before.

"You know full well that you're getting your "climate science" from individuals with questionable morals such as Marc Morano, Christopher Monckton, James Bast, Andrew Bolt, etc., etc., etc."

No, no, no, no.


Try Schmidt, Hansen, Halpern, and Curry etc etc (cue the personal attacks on Curry from our faviorite personal attacker Frank). They all believe this:

The climate has warmed since 1850 and that the evidence is overwhelming.


In your eyes Frank, I have no rights. Your display of attitude on this post and all previous that I have witnessed show a hostility towards anyone that you disagree with. You prepare a pre-defined box and put them in it and attack the properties of the box. You are a weak individual whose "bravery" is bolstered by the anonymity of the web. I have little to no respect for you and I seriously doubt you would have many supporters from Rabett Run based upon your performance on this post.


Truly sad.


Celery Eater

Anonymous said...

Frank,

Call me all the names you like shows more of who you are, a joke as I said before.

"You know full well that you're getting your "climate science" from individuals with questionable morals such as Marc Morano, Christopher Monckton, James Bast, Andrew Bolt, etc., etc., etc."

No, no, no, no.


Try Schmidt, Hansen, Halpern, and Curry etc etc (cue the personal attacks on Curry from our faviorite personal attacker Frank). They all believe this:

The climate has warmed since 1850 and that the evidence is overwhelming.


In your eyes Frank, I have no rights. Your display of attitude on this post and all previous that I have witnessed show a hostility towards anyone that you disagree with. You prepare a pre-defined box and put them in it and attack the properties of the box. You are a weak individual whose "bravery" is bolstered by the anonymity of the web. I have little to no respect for you and I seriously doubt you would have many supporters from Rabett Run based upon your performance on this post.


Truly sad.


Celery Eater

Mark said...

I tried to warn you about feeding the troll. It's always the same: you hit them with reason and they change the subject while getting in personal digs. You pursue them, thinking that you will catch them, but they wriggle free using moral relativism. You pursue them all the while, turning your attention from where they are leading you. Once it's too late, you see they have led you down into the muck with them.

Do not feed the troll.

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Mark:

You may be right, but at the same time, we can't let blatant denialist bullshit (like Celery Eater's) go unchallenged -- because otherwise the typical lurker may believe falsely that there's something to the bullshit. At least "Celery Eater" can no longer use his bogus 'why do you hate the troops?' trope to make himself look morally superior.

At any rate, we agree on one thing: "Celery Eater" behaves not like a war veteran but more like an obnoxious troll.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Typical lurker says...

Well Frank, this "typical lurker" thinks your above commentary makes you look like an unstable, arrogant ass. And that opinion has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on climate except to state that that with friends like you, your "side" needs no enemies.

You're doing far more harm than good so I wish you would STFU. Go spend some time looking for those "hackers" and try hard not to shoot your foot off entirely.

Anonymous said...

Here is my blatant denialist BS:

The climate has warmed since 1850 and that the evidence is overwhelming.

Frank says I am a denialist because of this belief and Mark agrees.


More of Frank attributing things I never said "'why do you hate the troops."


I trust that any lurkers on this site we get the right idea about you Frank, I have zero doubt with that thought.

From name calling to swearing Frank really knows how to make a point.



Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Obvious sockpuppet: "You [Frank]'re doing far more harm than good so I wish you would STFU."

Mark (not obviously a sockpuppet): "Do not feed [Celery Eater] the troll."

Celery Eater: "I trust that any lurkers on this site we get the right idea about you Frank, I have zero doubt with that thought."

'Nuff said.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

How can one person be wrong so many times?

"Typical Lurker" was not me, genius! lol OMG you have the critical thinking power of a 5 year old ROFLMAO !!

lol you are such a joke. What a great way to finish an evening knowing this is what you think! hahahahahahahahahahaha



Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater:

"lol OMG you have the critical thinking power of a 5 year old ROFLMAO !!"

Ooh, spoken like a true war veteran.

Actually I think you do look like a foot soldier ... a foot soldier in the service of the Murdoch-Koch Empire of Bullshit.

And I heard the Empire of Bullshit rewards its minions well too:

Gas Fracking Industry Using Military Psychological Warfare Tactics and Personnel In U.S. Communities.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Bye Frank and ignore the black helicopter I have assigned to you.


tool


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Good riddance. Let's once more revisit the words of Celery Eater, a self-proclaimed proud war veteran:

"lol OMG you have the critical thinking power of a 5 year old ROFLMAO !!"

Spoken like a true war veteran, indeed.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Lets visit more of Frank attributing statements to people for which they never spoke or wrote.

"the words of Celery Eater, a self-proclaimed proud war veteran:"


This is not accurate Frank and you know that. Your continual misrepresentation and fabrications are becoming legendary.


For the record:

I stated I was a veteran and never used the words proud (even though I am) and never used the word war in front of veteran. It is such a pity that you resort to lies and such personal attacks on these posts.

At least part of your name is very accurate, the "hack" part.


Keep posting on Rabett Run Frank and take its reputation down with you.



Celery Eater

EliRabett said...

pink helicopters please

Anonymous said...

Eli,

Frank is really special.


God Bless!


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Celery Eater continues to behave like a proud, um, not-so-war veteran:

"I stated I was a veteran and never used the words proud (even though I am) and never used the word war in front of veteran."

Again, spoken with the passion of a true veteran. Is this the kind of thing they taught you in the US military? How to weasel, nitpick, and insult people?

And I wonder which US military course taught you to behave like this:

"lol OMG you have the critical thinking power of a 5 year old ROFLMAO !!"

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

God Bless you.



Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

And Celery Eater, what else do you know about being a veteran other than that you hate Markos Moulitsas? I'm interested to know.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

I spent 8 years in the USMC.


God Bless


Celery Eater

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Maybe I wasn't clear enough:

Celery Eater, what else do you know about being a veteran other than that you hate Markos Moulitsas? I'm interested to know.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,

God Bless


Celery Eater

Russell said...

Here, Frank:

http://i43.tinypic.com/10z7mms.jpg


Now take your crayons and color in the image on your computer screen.

We'll all feel better when you do.

J Bowers said...

* Marines in Afghanistan Find That Solar Panels Save Soldiers' Lives
* Marines set to ship more solar panels to Afghanistan

"Their rave reviews urged Corps leaders to ship more alternative energy systems to Afghanistan faster.

“Guys didn’t want to give it up,” said Maj. Sean Sadlier, a logistics analyst with the Marine Corps Expeditionary Energy Office. “What better review can you get than that.”"

Cue music.

Anonymous said...

Typical Lurker said...

I am not CE Frank. I am just what I say I am. A lurker. And one who actually is more on your "side" than the other. So when I say shut up, I mean it because I think people like yourself--and there are others--with their obsessions and over the top rhetoric actually are doing more harm than good to a cause which needs to be addressed.

My point is, if you really give a shit about what the typical lurker thinks, your methods aren't helping the cause. Because the typical lurker, like myself, likely finds you, and the Masheys of the world, a bit nuts.

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

Ooh. Celery Eater, who claims to be a veteran, doesn't know anything about being a veteran other than that he hates Markos Moulitsas.

And "Typical lurker", who claims to be on the side of climate action, doesn't know anything about climate action except that everyone who's actually campaigning for climate action is wrong.

If it walks like a sockpuppet, quacks like a sockpuppet, ...

(OK, at least Russell is a real person...)

-- frank

frank -- Decoding SwiftHack said...

J Bowers, but at the same time the US military is still giving money to companies such as the Team Themis trio who sell their cyber-warfare and psyops services to anti-science corporations. Someone at the top needs to know that this is a bad idea.

-- frank

Anonymous said...

Frank,


God Bless you.


Celery Eater

J Bowers said...

Yes, Frank, I know. USMC grunts going bonkers for renewables in the fiercest combat zones in the world is, to my mind, a good sign, though. I'll bet you they take their preference home with them, too, with lots of tales of how good solar is and it helps cut casualties by 90%.

Anonymous said...

Oh, I am a real person Frank. Tell me Frank, what the hell is "climate action"? I am all for action to create a better, cleaner planet. But not because I fear for the climate. Because it's the right thing to do either way.

You don't campaign Frank. Yours is a crusade. You come off as batshit crazy, not reasonable. As such, you have the exact opposite effect than you intend but you are blind to that fact. Why is that Frank? Why can't you see your "efforts" make those on the fence want nothing to do with people like yourself. There are others of course. You are not alone unfortunately. And you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Shame that is lost on you.

Typical Lurker (a real person)

Anonymous said...

J Bowers,

Though I am ALL for solar--it's a big part of my business and I believe has real future value--I missed the part where their use by our troops--a good thing--lowered causalities by 90%. Do you have a cite for that?

Frank,

Can you give us some specific examples of corporations which are "anti science"?

Typical Lurker

Anonymous said...

Grammar snobs, fear not...

"Its" use, not "their" use referring to solar above.

TL

Anonymous said...

J Bowers<

It occurred to me that you were being intentionally hyperbolic. If so, never mind and apologies. As I said, I am all for solar, especially living in a very sunny Colorado. Effective and good business.

TL

J Bowers said...

TL, I got my numbers mixed up. 50% of the casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan are during fuel convoy operations (20% for water). I'll apologise for 90%, but not for 50%.

Army Environmental Policy Institute report: SMP Casualty Cost Factors.

J Bowers said...

More reading for TL:
Expeditionary Energy Strategy - Marines.mil
Also Google for:
USMC Expeditionary Energy Strategy and Implentation Plan.
DoD Report: From Barracks to the Battlefield. Clean Energy Innovation and America's Armed Forces.

Anonymous said...

J Bowers,

I got your point, and it was fair. They will come home raving about how solar saved lives. And it did, clearly. And that is, without a doubt, a fantastic thing.

Now, to the reliance issue I got from your USMC link, this is one of the reasons why I find the Keystone issue problematic. Oil is with us, and the sands oil will be burned, make no mistake. And armies, like it or not, run on it. Here or China. So why don't we benefit from the security of potentially having a good supply from a reliable source?

I would prefer it not to be true, but can you disagree?

J Bowers said...

TL, armies don't want to run on fossil fuels, and the US public accepts the science of climate change more since the GOP has been attracting more attention to the subject (scepticism has only increased amongst existing sceptics). In one way, I hope the GOP in Congress step up their targetting of renewables in the military. I seem to recall it took the military to turn the tide of public opinion irrevocably against McCarthy.