Wednesday, November 02, 2011

Schnarenfreude or The Asylum is Running the Inmates

Schnarenfreude** has broken out at Watt's and the editors are on break. Popcorn please. Eli has a copy.

** if you don't know, David Schnare, the ATI lawyer suing UVa for Michael Mann's Email has been caught in several interesting nononos that are going to destroy ATI's case and David Schnare. Go read.

42 comments:

Rattus Norvegicus said...

Schnaregate, Deniergate, F'in Bastardgate. Mostly it is wasting taxpayer dollars gate. And the fact that he is a dishonest SOB gate.

Holly Stick said...

Wow, Schnare is posting there himself (presumably it's the real one) and has accused the other side of having made a "salacious harangue" and a "salacious attack" on him.

Does he not know what the word "salacious" means? (Lecherous, lustful, lascivious, lewd, prurient, etc.)

dhogaza said...

Ah, the WUWT crowd know less of the law than they do of climate science ...

Schnare's really playing the crowd, isn't he? He's failed with the judge, so WUWT's his stage now ...

Brian said...

Wow, I wonder what kind of EPA lawyer he made while wasting taxpayer dollars with his time spent on this stuff (might even be worth a FOIA, ironically). Dr. Schnare might find himself off this case, and in some ethics jams if he really did lie to the court. ATI could find someone else I suppose, but if money's at all tight for them they could start having significant problems.

Belette said...

That is all pretty weird. What I can't understand is how they can possibly object to Mann being a party to his own case.

They even say "The Court allowed Mann to enter as an intervenor in this dispute... this does provide the Court with the path of fewest problems... ATI opposed Mann’s motion to intervene... We will appeal therefore... now we welcome Mann to this case to defend the content of his emails in a public forum. "

It all seems incoherent.

Antiquated Tory said...

Schnarefreude?

Anonymous said...

I like Schnare's comments on his old blog:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090623175832/http://thehardlook.typepad.com/

"I note in passing, by the way, that many environmental activists quietly rejoice over the potential of millions (billions?) of starving people. They think we need population control and food riots prove their point at the same time that it reduces population. These activists are very sick people and they constitute the leadership of most of the national environmental movement. But we've known about that for years, so I don't suppose any of us should be particularly surprised about that."

Typical language from an EPA employee...

EliRabett said...

Belette, the part about Mann intervening is not so weird. The issue is whether he has any privacy rights with respect to his emails because they were sent on a university computer account and he was employed by the University. Va law does carve out a work product exception for scholarly work, but whether this is a right of the university of of the scholar is not clear, at least from Eli's rememberence of readings past.

Since almost everyone uses, with permission, local telephone and email at work this could be a landmark case in privacy law. EINAL but he has a friend who could chime in.

EliRabett said...

Antiquated Tory: Wonderful much better than this or that gate, but Eli has altered it slightly to capture the idea that there are many Schnares out there for the unwary.

J Bowers said...

There's a fascinating piece of cognitive dissonance by Matt Ridley at WUWT. Apparently, the climate system is linear so no need to worry.

J Bowers said...

Meanwhile, Schnare's been going to great lengths to read Mann's emails, but refuses to offer his own affidavit response to UCS comments, claiming it's ad hominem noise, while criticising UCS for not making his affidavit response public. Hmmmm.... is he a lawyer?

Anonymous said...

Why the eff is ATI posting at WUWT?! This is beyond the pale. Hope other lawyers are watching and taking notes.

SO ANTHONY WATTS (AND BY EXTENSION HIS AFFILIATES STEVE MCINTYRE AND PIELKE SENIOR ETC.) DO SUPPORT THE WITCH HUNT AGAINST MANN!

What is Anthony's level of involvement with ATI?
Will Watts be able to resist the urge to use his fan base to raise money for ATI so that they can continue to harass and intimidate Mann even more?

rumleyfips said...

Good call anonymous. T. Watt has 2 links to the ATI begging bowl in this diatribe.

In response, I sent another donation to Scott Mandia"s fund then told Tony about it.

One of his posse replied gratiously.

John McManus

guthrie said...

What, the climate system is linear just like the banking and finance system is, so there's no need to worry about that either is there?

J Bowers said...

@ guthrie

That might help explain Northern Rock.

EliRabett said...

Everything is linear in the limit of small changes. OTOH, things break

Anonymous said...

Oops, met to comment here not there...

Trying to follow some of the "arguments" put forth over there really does impede my critical thinking abilities.

-blueshift

Holly Stick said...

Heh heh, snort! John McManus: "Keep your stick on the ice."

Red Green: We now come to the part of the show called "If it ain't broke, you're not trying!"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101177/quotes

Rattus Norvegicus said...

"If it works, don't lend it"

Rattus Norvegicus said...

And of course, the Opossum Lodge prayer:

"I'm a man... and I can change... I guess... if I have to"

Anonymous said...

I actually don't think that keeping your stick on the ice has any sexual overtones.

By the way does anybody remember Smith and Smith?

John McManus

Holly Stick said...

Yeah, I remember them. I don't know if she performs anymore, but Red Green is still making appearances.

David B. Benson said...

Oh goody.

Pass the chocolate chip cookies, please.

Brian said...

"Since almost everyone uses, with permission, local telephone and email at work this could be a landmark case in privacy law. EINAL but he has a friend who could chime in."

I hope Eli was referring to someone else, because dang if I know. Also it all goes to the laws of the individual states, so even a California expert can't be certain about Virginia law. However: usually these public records laws disclose everything with enumerated exceptions. If personal privacy interest, unrelated to other work-related reasons for non-disclosure, are not an enumerated exception for release, I expect they're out of luck. OTOH, there are often exceptions for "deliberative process" of forming opinions and exceptions for discussion of personnel issues, both of which might overlap with personal privacy interests. Those are areas where Mann legitimately seeks to intervene in the case, especially because UVa originally agreed to ridiculous provisions that did nothing to protect Mann's emails.

Someone more diligent than I would go look up Virginia law and caselaw and provide actual answers.

Jim Bouldin said...

"By the way does anybody remember Smith and Smith?"

Just what is needed for dealing with the jackass brigade: patience and perseverance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKvU69zS3Ic

Jeffrey Davis said...

Speaking of denialists. Niall Ferguson just published a an essay in Time about America's potential "Oh s**t moment" of sudden decline and what that might entail. Never mentioned climate change.

What a horrifying comic piece of work.

Snapple said...

On the UVA site they have a link to the FOIA laws and an update.

Look on the right under "related links."
http://www.virginia.edu/foia/

J Bowers said...

'Climate change' on the left is an interesting read,too.

Snapple said...

David Schnare has worked for the Justice Department, the EPA, and the Virginia Attorney General.

When did he work for the Virginia Attorney General?

http://www.southernstudies.org/2011/10/special-investigation-whos-behind-the-information-attacks-on-climate-scientists.html

J Bowers said...

Before 1999, which is the same year Scnare got his Juris Doctor Cum Laude from the George Mason University School of Law, where he is or recently was Director of the George Mason University School of Law Alumni Association Board.

Source: Staff and Scholars of the Thomas Jefferson Institute for Public Policy.

John Mashey said...

Schnare at GMU?
Why am I not surprised?
See this.

That's :
Ken Cuccinelli and assistant Wesley Russell
Milton Johns, Ed Wegman's lawyer and once Cuccinelli's law partner
David Schnare
I wonder if there are more?

As they might say in Star Wars, "the Koch is strong in this one" although in this case maybe "the farce is strong."

J Bowers said...

Is this where we have a wager on whether Eric May went to GMU? ;)

Hank Roberts said...

http://www.southernstudies.org/2011/10/special-investigation-whos-behind-the-information-attacks-on-climate-scientists.html

(Noted elsewhere, someone afflicted with the can't-post-at-eli's bug* asked about the tax status of the American Tradition Institute and was pointed here.)

---
* I had that too for a few weeks, though it appears to be working now.

Anonymous said...

Well, I went on over to the asylum and posted a couple of very politely-worded messages (linkies here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/02/michael-mann-wades-into-the-uva-thicket-as-intervenor/#comment-788854 and http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/02/michael-mann-wades-into-the-uva-thicket-as-intervenor/#comment-789685)

One of the more unhinged inmates (D. Patterson) replied with this gem (linky http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/02/michael-mann-wades-into-the-uva-thicket-as-intervenor/#comment-789725)

Don’t act like an idiot troll. We live in an interglacial period during one of the coldest and longest ice ages of the Earth’s past two billion years. If the Earth’s climate had not warmed during the last 10,000 years and longer, the Earth would have been trending closely towards becoming a frozen over iceball of a world. Since this post-glacial period warming is overwhelmingly obvious from every kind of anecdotal and other evidence in the millenia before the invention of the thermometer made it possible for any kind of an instrumental temperature record to exist, your strawman argument is idiotic and inappropriate in the extreme. Since the Earth’s climate has warmed precipitously every time there has ben an integlacial period without the presence of a human civilization, it must be expected that this most recent warming of the past 400 years is part of the ongoing interglacial period, otherwise another glacial period of the current ice age would be resuming ice age conditions. The Earth’s past natural variations in temperature and atmospheric dioxide levels are far larger than anything experienced since humans existed. Demonstrating that humans are capable of and have made any knid of significant contribution to the already existing and naturally occuring post-glacial interglacial period warming the Earth always experiences under such circumstances in the absence of human civilizations is the true issue in contention.

Well, I guess that I should have known better than to expect anything but obnoxious idiocy over there...

--caerbannog the anonybunny

John Mashey said...

I can see the DeSmogBlog entry on Schnare will likely get some additions.

re: on posting, at least for a while, I found that I had to turn on "Accept Third Party Cookies" to post here.

John Mashey said...

caerbannog:
See Ruddiman, Kutzbach and Vavrus. That's actually about a year and half old (when I first saw it) and they've made progress since.

Put simply: starting 5,000-7,000 years ago, the CO2/CH4 behavior in our interglacial (Stage 1) diverges from all others.

Ours flattens and then goes into steady rises for thousands of years. For all others, once CO2/CH4 peak, they then make long, slow, jiggly slides into the ice age following.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who signs himself:

"Sincerely,
David W. Schnare, Esq. Ph.D.
"

is, to put it nicely, trying too hard...

However, it gives me something to add to my own list of Rabbet Run suffixationy-thingies, the older of which I've completely forgotten the provinence.

Bernard J. Hyphen-Anonymous XVII, Esq.*


[* not even in levity would I countenance including my academic credentials - that's just one toss beyond the pale...]

John Mashey said...

Well, it could be worse, how about:
Dr. Jay Cadbury, phd, appears now and then, as in this, where he defends his friend Will Happer.

Hank Roberts said...

testing by allowing third party cookies

ah, it insists I sign in to Google. Fine, as long as I remember to sign out afterward (sigh). No surprise.

J Bowers said...

OT, but Monbiot's latest is rather good: The 1% are the very best destroyers of wealth the world has ever seen.

Anna Haynes said...

Any suggestions where I might be able to find the 2010 IRS Form 990 filing for ATI's sister 501c4, the Western (or American) Tradition Partnership?
(according to the doc I saw it's EIN #26-2289809, but I can't find it on Guidestar and ERI)

Holly Stick said...

Schnare has a post at WTFUWT explaining why he wants Mann's emails:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/14/why-i-want-mike-manns-emails/

Schnare writes: "...As a former academic scientist, I understand the need and desire to keep close the research work while it is underway..."

Robert Brown has some interesting comments there; he is a denier but is concerned with academics' right to privacy and appears knowledgeable on that topic.