Since all the bunnies have agreed to hijack the discussion on one of Eli's wonderful posts, the blather has been moved here, and feel free to disgrace yourselves further or feed the troll (you know who you are).
8c, I am a tolerant atheist, and you have just put yourself on my list
of intolerant so and sos. People who are unable to imagine that good
people living in the world are entitled to their beliefs and their
culture provide justification for the election of other people with
different beliefs who are equally intolerant. When you attack good
people, you make room for bad people.
As a remedy, I suggest you
go out and get a bible, and read the gospels, and perhaps Isaiah for
good measure, and think about what it says. There's some good stuff in
the Koran too. And you could try the Pope's Laudato Si.
Alienating people who share the beliefs of a large majority of the population is a good way to lose big time.
'No Man is an Island'
No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
You're smart enough to get over yourself: please do so. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.
I'm sorry Susan, but as a scientist I can clearly see that religion IS
THE PROBLEM. That problem has led directly to this national crisis.
this devolves into another American civil war still remains to be seen,
but if you think the delusional and insane Christian religious
conservative right are going to stand down and back away peacefully from
this, then you too are delusional. Kathryn Hayhoe iw the enabler.
And I am not going to back down on this until this is resolved.
One thing I am not, is a fearful cowardly American.
You should watch episode 4 of Showtime's "Years of Living
Dangerously", in which Rick Joyner's daughter -- assisted by Katherine
Hayhoe -- attempts to convince the pastor that climate change is real.
They fail. But the daughter does get the chance to address Joyner's
I am an atheist myself, but I don't condemn all
Christians. The problem is a vocal minority who seek to establish a
Christian theocracy in the United States. They are the ones who rail
against Islam, against atheism, and against many areas of science --
including climate science.
Thank you Eli for this post, and Susan and magmacc for your gracious
support. With over 70 of the US identifying as Christians, fixing the
climate problem without them is a pipe-dream. We have to work together
on this, rather than focus on what divides us.
8c, I would love an example of when you were nice to me, even if you are done now. And I'd also love to know your real name.
Susan, I am a theoretical physicist and a (former) rocket scientist, and everything you need to know about me may be found at http://lifeform.net, although it would be more to the point to start with this essay.
at the end of the references has some links to some recent companion
essays. In particular, in this essay I utterly demolish the need for any
deities to establish the origin of life on terrestrial planets, and
which has subsequently been backed up by some elegant mathematical
proofs by James Crutchfield.
much as I am loathe to continue to spam Eli's blogs with my idiotic
crackpot essays, now is the time for it. I just felt the need for Vera
Rubin and Helen Quinn cheerleading at a time when religious funding is
corrupting string theory and theoretical physics with vast amounts of
money from the John Templeton Foundation. I don't much care what
nonsense scientists believe in, but science and government can only
function properly by the a priori EXCLUSION of religious beliefs from
science and government. There can be no reconciliation.
events in America demonstrate that conclusively. You can run it by your
father, or not. I care not. I am now an activist for the absolute
exclusion of religion from science and government. I will not stand down
on this. The current American crisis is the fault of people who allow
religion to sway their scientific beliefs, at the highest level of
government, include and especially our former president. Trump and
Bannon are just using that to promote fascism.
I'm puzzled by 8c's insistence on lumping together all religious/ Xian
people. There are plenty of moderate religious people who understand
science and appreciate the value of freedom of religion. Of course
there are others who, it seems, want to impose an absolutist theocracy.
The first group is clearly prepared to join their fellow citizens in a
democratic country that respects science and freedom of religion, and
the second clearly isn't. Equating the two seems self-indulgent at best
and destructively delusional at worst.
8c: "There is no more being nice to Christians for me."
I'm trying-but-failing to remember a single comment by 8c in which he was "nice" to anybody.
defends his all-encompassing misanthropy by claiming he's "An American
scientist". Well, so am I, by training and inclination though not by
profession, and an atheist (in the dictionary sense) as well, and I have
nothing but respect for Dr. Hayhoe. When she says "With over 70[%] of
the US identifying as Christians, fixing the climate problem without
them is a pipe-dream", she is speaking cold truth, and her theology of
stewardship offers the only realistic challenge to the Calvinist
dominionism now in unholy alliance with American plutocracy.
an atheist, I agree with Susan that wisdom can be found in the world's
holy books. Before I declined to be confirmed in my mother's church at
age 12, I became acquainted with the Bible. It holds that pride is the
deadliest of sins, for it enables all others. While 8c may believe
himself heroic, his fatuous declamation of disdain for all religious
faith is purely self-indulgent, and his intolerance at least as
dangerous as the notion that AGW can't be real because God wouldn't
allow it. With friends like him, climate realists don't need enemies!
If that were true Bryson America would not have suddenly run off the
rails into an effective coup d'etat headed straight for a fascist
Christian theocracy. This has been creeping up for decades, ever since
the summer of 1988 if you recall the events of that summer. There were
plenty of flags raised the first year into Reagan's term. And we all had
to suffer Nixon, and before that, the Vietnam war.
These people are American fascists, and religion is the direct cause.
Whether it was used as a took, or as a true believer, or not.
It's false dogma and has no place in science, education or government.
8c - You've either forgotten or never learned your history. There is
nothing unique about religion or christianity vis a vis fascism.
Atheism has probably spawned the worst fascists. Have you sworn off
atheists as well - yourself included? It would make sense in a DSM sort
Please do not feed the trolls or haters. It doesn't go anywhere.
for pleasure, here's rather a nice poem which was referenced as a
memorial to Vera Rubin by someone else whose name I forget. Sadly, the
nice spacing of the original will probably disappear, in which case you
can go to the original here:
By Adrienne Rich
Thinking of Caroline Herschel (1750—1848)
astronomer, sister of William; and others.
A woman in the shape of a monster
a monster in the shape of a woman
the skies are full of them
a woman 'in the snow
among the Clocks and instruments
or measuring the ground with poles’
in her 98 years to discover
she whom the moon ruled
levitating into the night sky
riding the polished lenses
Galaxies of women, there
doing penance for impetuousness
in those spaces of the mind
‘virile, precise and absolutely certain’
from the mad webs of Uranusborg
encountering the NOVA
every impulse of light exploding
from the core
as life flies out of us
Tycho whispering at last
‘Let me not seem to have lived in vain’
What we see, we see
and seeing is changing
the light that shrivels a mountain
and leaves a man alive
Heartbeat of the pulsar
heart sweating through my body
The radio impulse
pouring in from Taurus
I am bombarded yet I stand
I have been standing all my life in the
direct path of a battery of signals
the most accurately transmitted most
untranslatable language in the universe
I am a galactic cloud so deep so invo-
luted that a light wave could take 15
years to travel through me And has
taken I am an instrument in the shape
of a woman trying to translate pulsations
into images for the relief of the body
and the reconstruction of the mind.
Eli Rabett, a not quite failed professorial techno-bunny who finally handed in the keys and retired from his wanna be research university. The students continue to be naive but great people and the administrators continue to vary day-to-day between homicidal and delusional without Eli's help. Eli notices from recent political developments that this behavior is not limited to administrators. His colleagues retain their curious inability to see the holes that they dig for themselves. Prof. Rabett is thankful that they, or at least some of them occasionally heeded his pointing out the implications of the various enthusiasms that rattle around the department and school. Ms. Rabett is thankful that Prof. Rabett occasionally heeds her pointing out that he is nuts.