Tuesday, September 11, 2012

The Value of Blogs

There is an interesting colloquy going on at Deep Climate between Zeke and Deep about the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Record.  Deep has uncovered some interesting information about Berkeley and Zeke, of course is part of the Berkeley team.  On the whole a high level discussion.  From Eli's point of view Deep is being a touch too McIntyre, but only a touch, and not without some justification given Muller's public statements, but there are, as said, some insights there worth looking at.

Please, no food fights.  Keep it civil.


Anonymous said...

What's this?

BEST trying to hide their decline?


Zeke said...

We also had a good conversation via email in the background, with Robert helping out with some responses since he doesn't post much on the blogs anymore.

Pinko Punko said...

I thought at least Deep was quite upfront about where his pique was coming from, and since both parties clearly actively chose to not escalate beyond some of that honesty, it was nicely productive. That was nice and I commend both of them.

Anonymous said...

As a biologist, I know that there are 1,000's of ecological studies about northward changes in species' ranges, earlier breeding, earlier migration, less ice coverage on lakes and its effects on lake communities etc. Thus, there is very convincing evidence for warming over the past 50 years that is completely independent of the human temperature records. I don't understand why Muller and others would just ignore this kind of evidence. It's been about ten years since major reviews were published in Nature and certainly the data were convincing well before that.


Ed Darrell said...

Bill D has the right idea. Indeed, evidence from migration changes, changing timberlines, rising green lines, glacier melts in the Rockies, the growing zones promulgated by USDA and the Arbor Day Foundation, and a host of other observations of seasonal rhythms tell us the climate is warming dramatically, completely apart from any temperature records.

"Ignore the video from the security camera, and listen to the eyewitness testimony of the drunk in the parking lot," the denialists tell us. "Nothing happened in the back of the store by the videos."

Anonymous said...

The most hilarious thing is that Muller has actually made the claim that without the "thermometer" data (eg, from surface stations), global warming would have gone unnoticed.

Naw, no one (and certainly no animals and plants) would have noticed any of the stuff mentioned by Bill and Ed.

of course, Muller is also (famously) the fellow who has claimed that not a single polar bear has died due to melting arctic sea ice.

Just how he knows this for certain is not clear. Perhaps he has been paddling around the arctic for the past 30 years in his sea kayak interviewing the polar bears?


Hank Roberts said...

> with Robert helping out with
> some responses since he doesn't
> post much on the blogs

I'd appreciate hearing where y'all have gotten his participation, I appreciate having his judgment about what's real underlying what we can measure (and given the way his job is described, Muller does too). Don't quite need the "I'm Robert Rohde and I approve this message" trailer, but something along those lines would reassure me he's helping keep on track here.

Now if y'all could only clone him so one of him could go back to Globalwarmingart fulltime ....