Friday, July 13, 2012

Gold Amdst the Dross

Eli, of course, slums.  Among other places he likes to discover the Curry worst, but occasionally gold appears amidst the dross which needs to be washed in the cool waters of Rabett Run (simile abuse for fun and little prophet).  A defining characteristic of the Pielkesphere (TM ER) is a complete lack of self awareness or awareness of anything beyond the third grade level, which lead Judy to ask "So, how do you think Machiavelli would advise the Prince on dealing with climate change?"

Robert, teaches

It is a sad reality that those that devote a considerable part of their lives to textual analysis are sometimes not very good at it, and that seems to be the case here. Machiavelli did not recommend submission to the whims of Fortune. Quite the opposite. Machiavelli wrote at a time when submission to fate or providence was considered a religious value and a sign of good character; he rejected that, and urged that a leader strive to control his destiny as far as was practical.

If you were to lay a problem like climate change before Machiavelli, you would find he would confront the problem ruthlessly and pragmatically, wasting no time on science denial or other forms of wishful thinking. He would isolate and undermine opponents of such a policy, highlighting their factual mistakes, scientific ignorance, and predilection for hateful, spiteful, and physically threatening abuse (1, 2, 3).

Finally, Machiavelli would use the issue of global warming to advance the position of the government relative to the opposition, and of the state relative to its external rivals. He might counsel establishing a commanding lead in the relevant technologies, using trade penalties or trade agreements to secure commitments to cut emissions, or even extending or withdrawing security guarantees to secure cooperation — whilst ensuring, as I said, that the industries of his state are best prepared to profit from an intensive effort to cut emissions.


Anonymous said...

[Eli] "likes to discover the Curry worst"

With the Sieve of Elitosthenes?


Anonymous said...

So basically, Machiavelli would behave like a good pragmatist, ignoring niceties like civil discourse, proving your claims, voluntary association, etc., and leap right into the demagoguery and demonizing of the opposition. Delightful.


EliRabett said...

Hey, that's what Mac would recommend (he was the adviser not the Prince), but anyone stupid enough to envoke Mac should be intelligent enough to know what they are going to get.

What Maciavelli did not have was patience for fools. - Eli


Messer Niccolo might advise Alexander VI to sell plenary carbon indulgences on the Rialto exchange to cover the Inquisition's auto da Fe emissions.

Martin Vermeer said...

I shouldn't be advertising, but scrolling down from Robert's linked comment at Judy's is its own reward

dhogaza said...

To add to what Martin says, here's the first well-reasoned, rationally-argued response to Robert, from someone named Mike:

"Long time no see, guy! But so kind of you to stop by and give us all a good-ball, what-a-pretentious-jerk-off!, know-it-all lecture on Machiavelli’s place in the history of ideas and the proper interpretation of his works.

So, Robert, why am I not surprised that you have made an eager-beaver, aren’t-I-a-little-greenshirt-smarty-pants? “study” of Machiavelli. I mean, like, the few times I’ve checked out that pathetic, loser blog of yours–that practically no one reads–the one and only pleasure I found in your blog was the goobered-up, this-guy-is-really-a-sicko!, so-bad-it’s-good megalomania that thoroughly infected your every, well-tracked, “idiot” post. I mean, like, I can see now where your delusions of grandeur are coming from, Robert–I mean, like, in that screwed-up, pathologically twisted little imagination of yours, you regard yourself, don’t you Robert, as some sort of “Machiavellian” bad-ass, avenger-dork, little operator heroically pushing, on the world-scene, the hive’s various make-a-buck/make-a-gulag scams. I mean, like, you’re that thoroughly freaked-up, aren’t you, Robert? I mean, like, what are we going to do with you, Robert?"

ligne said...

woah. if we weren't past peak hyphen before, we undoubtedly are now.

ligne said...

that whole thread is a glory to behold.

Oliver Manuel complaining that his crank theories are being suppressed by, ooh, pretty much everyone who ever existed. some nice whining that science has become reliant on computers rather than blackboards. instructions that we should ignore the actual measurements: snow cover isn't decreasing, because someone saw some in their garden a couple of winters ago. "Fan Of More Discourse? more like fan of more *BS* amirite hahahaha???". crazy rambling about the UN, socialism and Greenpeace plans to take over the world. Hitler was actually a progressive.

oh wow, there's even a creationist! rock. on.

Anonymous said...

I've posted this on the North Carolina thread from the end of June, but in case it drops off the radar there I'll repeat it here.

An Australian Conservative state government is going all Macchiavellian in trying to assure that their ideology trumps rationality, by taking a leaf from the NC politicians' Book of Truth as the Ostrich Sees It:

Since gaining office recently, the Queensland LNP has, amongst other things, already moved to shut down the state's Office of Climate Change:

It seems that the hankering for the fundamentalist conservatism Bjelke-Petersen years (where even a few decades ago the gathering of more than 3 people could be construed as an illegal demonstration) has never left, and that the rabid denial of rationality is as foamy as ever.

It will be interesting to see whether the LNP moves this from their convention resolution - and to see how Tony Abbott catches this ball and runs with it when he inevitably wins the next federal election.

Bernard J.

susan said...

Robert, who links through to a personal favorite, IdiotTracker, attracts nastiness as do all climate realists who venture into those territories. JC seems to have no conscience about the venom, shame on her.

Russell as always provides a delightful stinging suggestion.

However, this time it's not the Pope, it's the planet, and it's not for sale.

susan said...

Not being fond of being demonstrably connected to sites like WUWT and Curry, I hastened away, but saw that Mosher had posted a video. I shudder to think what depths he will have chosen to plumb there.
(Susan Anderson)

Louise said...

Susan - I have burned my bridges with both WTFIUWT and Curry's site today. Watts is demanding that Caerbannog either personally deny or confirm that he's a Goth (WTF!) and Curry is claiming that NIPCC reports are equivalent to IPCC. You couldn't make this stuff up

J Bowers said...

Re: Watts's schoolyard pop at caerbannog.

1) Even if it is caerbannog, cool photos man!
2) You know you're over the target when you're taking flack
3) I've seen photos of Watts's 'tache. He's in no position to mock.
4) Caerbannog's rundown of how he replicated temp series, which deserves to be all over the internet as much as possible.
5) Caerbannog's rundown of how he replicated temp series, again, which deserves to be all over the internet as much as possible.
6) Anthony Watts can't do the replication himself.

Horatio Algeranon said...

"I hastened away [from the Curry Slurry], but saw that Mosher had posted a video. I shudder to think what depths he will have chosen to plumb there.


Horatio wrote Mr. Edit in Mosher's honor.

And Mr. Edit is also featured prominently in Shootout at the O Curry Corral

As you can tell, Horatio has the highest regards for the both of them.

susan said...

Yes, the 'stache makes him look like a WWII fighter pilot. Very dapper, but not an intelligent look. I knew a couple of guys who looked like that, and neither was the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

Thanks Horatio, entertaining as always.

I have the honor of having been dissed by Mosher, made me feel important but it's no so ;)

Anonymous said...

I love that video. Thought it was brilliant. Trust me, after spending far too many hours trying to explain why the temperature record is reliable or why radiative physics is correct to some rather thick headed folks at WUWT or judiths ( I gave up on tallbloke ) I can say there are times I want to pee in their coffee. Kinda the same reaction I had to people who argued that freeing data and code was a bad thing.

Anonymous said...

Eli, you say, " What Maciavelli did not have was patience for fools."

Your right Eli, after properly disposing of us deniers, guess who he recommend the State come after next. Tyrants are fun, eh Eli.

EliRabett said...

Why those unproductive, trouble making academics of course, who really need to go out into the rough and tumble of the market. Who else?