Tuesday, July 01, 2014

Turn About

Of course, Eli is sitting on the couch, switching back and forth between the World Cup and Monckton

vs. Svalgaard at Willard Tony's place.  Eli must admit a feeling of guilt for having let the air out of the causus bellow, Jr. Rocket Scientist David Evans Theory of Nothing, but us scientist types do have responsibilities.  Still, popcorn futures are doing well.  Eli has discovered new things, for example, that Leif does not hold a high opinion of Michael Mann (it always comes back to Mike, don't it?) and that the Good Lord Monckton thinks that Mike's suit against NRO is godly and good.  WHAT!!

Well Eli was giggling through the comments and came across a letter from Monckton to the world and Leif.  The issue is that Chris has invested deeply in Evan's futures, and is watching his pounds flow out the channel, and Leif is, well, rather protective of his turf and terse, compared to the Florid Flouncer.  Leif is upset that Evans produced a downturn at the end of his TSI series by padding it in a certain way, and that the data itself is older than Eli and not the best.  Bunnies can go over there and read the details if they must.  Willard Tony censors comments not eyeballs, and so we have this from Lord Monckton

WARNING:(True, Eli has substituted Mann for Evans in this and Steyn for Svalgaard, but it does not take a good lawyer to imagine that any willingness of Mr. Steyn's lawyers to call Lord Monckton has just plunged.  Eli has perhaps enhanced this a bit)
In the Britannosphere, accusations of fraud (and adding the word “almost”, particularly given the manner in which Mr Svalgaard Steyn has interpreted what he meant by “almost”, will not help the defendant much) are taken very seriously indeed by the courts. I have now compiled a list of some of the things Mr Svalgaard  Steyn has said about Dr Evans Mann. It has taken two hours. That’s a long list.

Thanks to my former career, I have had to become something of an expert in what is and is not libel in multiple jurisdictions. Mr Svalgaard  Steyn’s remarks constitute what is known in British and Australian law as “a libel of Mr Evans Mann in his calling” – and a grave one at that. Falsely and repeatedly to accuse a fellow scientist, in the most widely-read public forum on the climate worldwide, of having used wrong data and of having fabricated data, just at the moment when Dr Evans Mann is preparing to launch the culmination of many years’ patient work, and to persist in these libels even after having been given numerous plain warnings to desist, would in my not inexpert opinion – if the case were proven – require Mr Svalgaard  Steyn to pay Dr Evans Mann not less than $100,000 in aggravated damages, particularly because Mr Svalgaard Steyn was given so many opportunities to apologize and persistently failed to take them.
a bit of interpolation here to fit the wrong case and
I do not speak for Dr Evans Mann in any way, and I have no idea of whether he will decide to sue. As a first step, he might request National Review to allow him to answer the allegations in a head posting, which would go some way towards expunging Mr Svalgaard Steyn’s nastly libel of him in his calling as a scientist.

Perhaps in the United States, as one thoughtful commenter has suggested, persistently and falsely calling someone “almost fraudulent” for allegedly “fabricating” scientific data is thought acceptable. Not in Australia. There, as in any British-law jurisdiction, such a libel is taken very seriously indeed. I had hoped I had made that plain to Mr Svalgaard Steyn, so as to give him the chance to get himself off the hook.

For my part, I am referring Mr Svalgaard Steyn’s long list of malicious comments about Dr Evans Mann (but not about me: I give as good as I get) to his university, which will know best how to handle the matter, for there is a rather delicate aspect that I am not at liberty to discuss here. The university will most certainly realize that the do-nothing option is not an option. The libel is too grave and too persistent. My lawyers are looking at it tomorrow to see whether malice is present, in which case the damages would triple, to say nothing of the costs. Their corresponding lawyers in the U.S. will be giving advice on whether Dr Evans Mann would count in U.S. law as a “public figure”, Probably not, from what I know of the “public-figure” test, in which event, in order to enforce the judgement of the Australian courts in the U.S., it would not be necessary to prove malice (for, though malice seems evident, the test in Australian law is high).

It would also be open to Dr Evans Mann simply to apply to the court for a declaration (in Scotland, declarator) that he had not fabricated anything or engaged in any of the other varieties of scientific misconduct of which Mr Svalgaard Steyn has seen fit to accuse him with such vicious and unbecoming persistence.
 and again a break during with Eli wiped the spittle off the inside of his LCD screen, concluding with
And there, I think, we had better leave it and let the appropriate authorities take over. I have only been as explicit as this because this posting will also go some little way towards expunging the libel and minimizing the damage to Dr Evans Mann’ reputation that Mr Svalgaard Steyn seems to have intended.
Eli is sure that Prof. Mann's lawyers will call Lord Monckton as a witness of law.  Ethon will provide transportation free of cost, however, Eli is also sure that Mycroft and Scrotum are arranging a long trip to the end of nowhere for Chris. 


William Connolley said...

Have you seen KON's http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/28/a-cool-question-answered/#comment-1673742 ?

Marco said...

This is quite rich, coming from Monckton, who in a recent submission to the UK parliament proclaimed that Overpeck told Deming “We have to abolish the mediaeval warm period”.


This unproven assertion, in many ways, is of course as libelous as it gets.

Interested bunnies may also search for the term "fraudulent" in that document, and find it to be used a few times, with the evidence of any fraud as thin as air in space...

J Bowers said...

Poor Willis E just doesn't seem to get the concept of 'fair game'. bushbunny sums it up:

"Willis I have forty years of being involved in politics, and one thing we generally do is not complain or put out disagreements publicly about someone who we consider as an ally! However, we might have a quiet word in their ear when they cross the line of credibility! Especially when it does arm the opposition with more bullets to fire at our ideology."

So much for science being openly debated over at Tony's. Reminds me of a quote I posted here last night. Willis also doesn't seem to realise that there really are a self-selected few who run the show he plays in, and he just got written warnings.

Brian said...

Relevant to Mann's case, "almost fraudulent" isn't the same as "fraudulent", and Steyn left out the modifier.

Unlike Chris M, I'm not an expert in libel law outside the US (has he ever won a case? He sure makes lots of threats). In the US though I'd lean towards guessing that David Evans is a limited public figure for purposes of the critique being made of his public announcements on this issue.

I think it's too bad that David is going down this path - he's my betting counterpart for my climate change bet from 2007, and I found him very easy to deal with and not seeking attention. I'm sure he believes what he's saying.

One question is whether he's willing to bet over his new prediction that temps will drop starting sometime between now and 2024. Putting it off until 2024 is a long time. OTOH, he must think the odds are good that the drop will start somewhat earlier.

Fernando Leanme said...

Don´t take this personal, but it seems to me these discussions are less about the technical and science and economic issues and more about the individual conflicts. I did a search under my nom de plume and I found there were comments both praising me and suggesting I was a fascist (although the fascist tag may have been caused by a post I wrote about Venezuela´s President Maduro).

Can´t you try to be more focused on the technical issues and less on the "he said she said"? For example, I read a comment that a weak sun could drop temperature. The forcing reduction seems to be 0.1 watt per square meter as the sun reaches the weak minimum. But I understand the current total forcing plus feedbacks heating rate is around 0.5 watts per square meter.

So can I assume the weaker sun effect will remain constant and will continue to drop the temperature accordingly?

Or did I get my units wrong somewhere? (I just had dinner and a glass of wine, and my memory isn´t that focused anymore).

Everett F Sargent said...


I don't know what the term is for Roulette when all 38 numbers have bets on them. But if you see where I'm coming from, there will always be a winner.

For next year, for the next decade, for the next century, with just a few million bets, the climate Roulette table is absolutely covered.

No science needed, just pure blind luck.

Anonymous said...

Eli, you are one very sick leftist pup.

Russell Seitz said...

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their ideology by demanding this disputation's civil settlement by a cricket match between teams captained by Monckton and Zac Goldsmith.

Hank Roberts said...

> I'm sure he believes
> what he's saying.

Neil Gaiman on the haunting ghost of dead ideas
(Audio file)

Hank Roberts said...

A useful reminder that a large number of the "people" online are bots: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/03/your-fake-followers-are-catfishing-you-bacon-mavens-newt-s-fake-fans-and-other-social-media-scams.html

Russell Seitz said...

With PoMo and Pyratespeake prose transformers available online, it is time the editors of The American Thinker offered to Moncktonize their authors's submissions free if charge.

Susan Anderson said...

Admin needs to stop whatever that is. Likely to be some computer virus material in there.

Russell Seitz said...

Who ever would want to freeze my platform?

Bill O'Slatter said...

Bahasa pyratespeak.

Barton Paul Levenson said...

The Viscount accused Dr. Richard Muller (UC-Berkeley) of faking his whole project, so by his own logic, the Viscount is guilty of libel and owes Dr. Muller, at the very least, an apology.

Barton Paul Levenson said...

Anon: Eli, you are one very sick leftist pup.

BPL: Anon, you are one very scientifically illiterate rightist dog.

Hank Roberts said...

Sigh. A gentle pat on the wrist, and a microscopically tiny added cost, as a penalty:

A Facing South investigation found that ATI had connections to fossil-fuel interests. The group, which last year changed its name to the Energy & Environment Legal Institute (EELI), is a spin-off of the American Tradition Partnership, a dark-money group that has been embroiled in campaign finance controversies.

On July 8, the Supreme Court of Virginia affirmed the ruling by the Circuit Court of Prince William County on appeal, ordering ATI to pay $250 in damages. For a copy of the order, click here.