Back in the good old days, OISM had a petition centered around a misleading fake paper authored by Eli's friends Robinson, Baliunas and Soon and fronted by Fred Seitz. They brought in ~17000 suckers among which were2660 Physicists, Geophysicists, Climatologists, Meteorologists, Oceanographers, and Evironmental Scientists Signers
which in the telling became 2660 climate scientists. Only problem was that most of these innocents, were that, an amalgamation of condensed matter, nuclear and theoretical physicists with only a handful of real climate scientists, among which were the usual suspects. That petition had about as much climtological and related expertise as what you can get on the street for signers against nuclear energy. Lots of media got sucked in before it became clear that what you had was a disinformation campaign funded through the Marshall Institute.Friday, Mark Morano, James Inofe's climate incubus brought us
and the usual main stream media got sucked in. Of course, just looking at the list tells you that there was something fishy going on as Joe Romm points out on Grist. Eli being a RTFR kind of guy wanted to see who the 400 are, so he had the lab bunnies make a little list by reading through Morano's opus. And sure enough there were the usual suspects, but the denialist bench is thin as Andy Dessler pointed out recently, and Eli had done a few years ago.
But were there 400?
Well yes, 405, by Bunny Labs count after we ditched the duplicates, of which ~45 were TV weather heads so that leaves 360 or so. The list is undergoing further analysis, which will be completed as soon as we stop laughing
UPDATE: The 400 Weather Channel -
- Alexandre Aguiar Meteorologist of Brazil's MetSul Weather Center
- David Aldrich Meteorologist TV Fox 29 Philadelphia PA
- Chris Allen Meteorologist Kentucky Fox affiliate WBKO
- Steve Baskerville Meteorologist CBS Chicago affiliate WBBM-TV
- Joe Bastardi Meteorologist AccuWeather
- Justin Berk Meteorologist WMAR Channel 2 in Baltimore
- Sally Bernier Meteorologist of WJW-TV, in Cleveland, OH
- Bob Breck Meteorologist of WVUE-TV in New Orlean LA
- Tom Chisholm Meteorologist of WMTW ABC Portland ME
- John Coleman, Meteorologist Founder of The Weather Channel
- Larry Cosgrove Meteorologist WeatherAmerica formerly of WSYX Columbus OH
- Joseph D'Aleo Meteorologist Weather Channel Weather Service International
- Gary England, Meteorologist KWTV Channel 9, the CBS affiliate in Oklahoma City, OK
- Bill Evans Meteorologist WABC-TV New York NY
- Jesse Ferrell Meteorologist AccuWeather
- Dick Goddard Meteorologist WJW Cleveland OH
- Dr. Mel Goldstein, Meteorologist Connecticut's TV News Channel 8
- Brian van de Graaff Meteorologist WJLA Channel 7 Washington, DC
- Jeff Halblaub Meteorologist of Weather Service International Corporation
- Art Horn, Meteorologist currently operating The ‘Art' Of the Weather business
- Craig James, Meteorologist WOOD Grand Rapids MI NBC TV affiliate
- Mark Johnson, Meteorologist WEWS Cleveland, OH
- John Loufman, Meteorologist WOIO Cleveland OH
- Rob Marciano, CNN Meteorologist CNN
- Peter McGurk, Meteorologist Weather Service International Corporation, a provider of weather-driven business solutions to such clients as CNN, FOX, NBC, American Airlines, Delta, and FedEX
- Bill Meck, Meteorologist LEX18 Lexington KY NBC affiliate
- Mark Nolan Meteorologist TV
- Jim Ott, Meteorologist formerly of WTMJ-TV in Wisconsin
- Morgan Palmer of Texas TV's KLTV
- Bernie Rayno, Meteorologist with AccuWeather
- Mark Scirto Meteorologist of Texas TV's KLTV
- Bruce Schwoegler, Boston broadcast meteorologist WBZ
- Gary Shore Meteorologist KCAU-TV Sioux City, Iowa
- Dr. Joe Soebel Meteorologist Accuweather
- James Spann Meteorologist of WABC 33/40 Birmingham AL
- Karl Spring, Meteorologist KBJR-TV Duluth, MN
- Bill Steffen Meteorologist WOOD TVof Grand Rapids, MI
- Herb Stevens, Meteorologist WNYT TV Albany, NY
- Kyly Underwood Meteorologist KBJR-TV Duluth MN
- George Waldenberger Meteorologists KJRH TV Tulsa OK
- Dr. Fred Ward, Meteorologist (former)WNAC-TV TV
- Anthony WattsMeteorologist (former) for KHSL-TV, a CBS-TV affiliate
- Dan Webster, Ohio meteorologists
- Chuck Wiese Meteorologist (former) KOIN TV Portland OR
- Kevin Williams Meteorologist WHEC-TV Rochester NY
- Joseph Conklin Meteorologist website climate police
Were there surprises? Well yes our friend Richard Courtney apparently has been signing himself as Dr. Richard, and even Richard Courtney, Ph.D. on letters to various important Canadian PMs. and UN Secretary Generals. Stoat in discussing the official nutters list mentioned that the rumor was that Courtney was skating about on his qualifications. Eli has located them (page 17)
Richard is also an Accredited Methodist Preacher. He is a founding Member of the Christ and the Cosmos Initiative that explores the interactions of religious and scientific ideas. The Initiative started in the UK but became active in 28 countries.A DipPhil is not a Doctor of Philosopy, but a Diploma in Philosophy. The University of Cambridge offers one year postgraduate courses leading to Diplomas, but not in Philosophy, at least not now. We could speculate further, but as Desmogblog put it with their usual delicacy
Richard avoids confusion about him in his scientific and religious activities by rarely citing his academic achievements, but his material science qualifications include a DipPhil (Cambridge), a BA (Open) and a Diploma (Bath).
But Richard Courtney is hardly a source to be taken seriously. In fact, there is every reason to believe that if he has a Ph.D. at all, he got it out of a box of cracker jacks.However, Richard has managed to get himself as an expert witness in front of a House of Commons Select Committee on Energy and also the House of Lords Select Committee on the Environment. Tim Ball is jealous.
Interesting to note that, if you've read the Wash Times story on this, Inhofe and the gang are already expecting defections from their list. Anyone who says WTF is my name doing next to these kooks? and complains will, according to Inhofe, have succumbed to pressure to conform to the consensus.
ReplyDeleteBTW, how did Pielke Sr. manage to stay OFF this list? Given the mild objections of some of the people ON it, you think he would qualify.
Mr. Rabett - a question
ReplyDeleteI've seen the phrase "only a handful of real climate scientists" which you used, also mentioned in posts around the web.
I see the need to make that point, but I was curious.
Googled to see how many colleges offered a degree in climate science. Searched for "degree program climate science".
Here is what came up-
http://www.uri.edu/news/releases/?id=4121
"URI developing world’s first climate science MBA program" - that was from Sept 12th, 2007.
So I tried searching for "degree program climatology" and came up with just this one from Penn State-
http://bulletins.psu.edu/bulletins/bluebook/college_campus_details.cfm?id=24&program=clima.htm
And Utah State, which only seems to offer a "specialization" in post graduate work-
http://psc.usu.edu/htm/students/graduate/gdegree
So I thought I'd look at how many respected scientists had climatology degrees. I started with the main man - James Hansen.
I found his page- http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/
Wow, complete surprise! His education lists Astronomy, Physics, and Mathematics. But no climatology or even meteorology.
I also tried Michael Mann, another well known figure. I found his page too - http://holocene.meteo.psu.edu/Mann/
He holds degrees in Applied Math, Physics and Geology. Like Hansen, no climatology or even meteorology.
You'd think the two biggest names in global warming research would have some training in meteorology or climatology.
So the REAL question is then, how many of the "real climate scientists" that you hold up as a standard have degrees in climatology or even meteorology?
Do you have such degrees Mr. Rabett?
I think before you put down people for not having climatology degrees you should look around. It seems climatology degrees are hard to come by. It looks like some people just appointed themselves as climatologists.
"Climate Science" is not generally a discipline in which universities grant degrees (as you have pointed out). Neither are there degrees in "time series analysis," although a number of researchers (including myself) specialize in that.
ReplyDeleteThe real litmus test for whether or not a scientist should be considered a legitimate member of the "climate" variety is whether or not they've published research in the peer-reviewed literature on climate science. If you look at the list of Hansen's or Mann's peer-reviewed publications then there's no doubt they fall into this category.
This of course means that confirming or denying someone's status as "climate scientist" requires more than just discovering the topic of their degrees. But the line of demarcation is just as sharp, and the division between those scientists who are "climate" and those who are not, is just as unambiguous.
tamino said:
ReplyDelete"The real litmus test for whether or not a scientist should be considered a legitimate member of the "climate" variety is whether or not they've published research in the peer-reviewed literature on climate science."
Good point tamino. But that a scientist specializes in an aspect of climate does not mean they are authorities in global climate.
How many scientists are truly considered experts in global climate science as opposed to climate scientists specializing only within their particular narrow field?
- Paul S
That's a little desperate, Paul S. I'm afraid the obvious answer means you'll have to change your attitude about GCMers. Of course in addition to papers published we can also look at dissertation topic and employment focus (post-doc and later). You might also consider the parallel to medical specialists -- they all get a general grounding first.
ReplyDeleteEli, you picked up one AccuWeather type but missed the three others. My quick impression is that the complete count of forecast weatherpeople/meteorologists could be as much as double what you have so far. FYI, you might want check with the guy over at Rogues and Scholars who seems bent on doing a write-up of each and every one of the @400.
Speaking of AccuWeather, and as laughter is good for the soul, be sure not to miss this.
Hardly desperate Steve, it's a valid question.
ReplyDeleteMerely because one studies one aspect of climate does not make that person an expert in global climate.
You mention the medical profession, and that is a good example. Take a dermatologist and an oncologist. Though both are medically trained, you would rarely, if ever, consult the former over a disease requiring the services of the latter.
So the question remains, with specialization also the norm in climate science, how many of these climate scientists are actually qualified to comment on the global aspects of climate?
- Paul S
Well, one could start with the global modelers. . .
ReplyDeletePhysicians get an overview of the field during medical school. It's similar with climate scientists. It's been my experience with every climate scientist I've interacted with (a fair number at this point) that they maintain an active interest in major developments outside their specialties. Even for those who don't regularly collaborate with scientists in other specialties (although most do), review articles and conferences make it easy to keep up.
ReplyDeleteSteve, the Bastardi article shows exactly what operational forecasters opinions are worth when discussing global climate. What a clown.
ReplyDeleteIt seems climatology degrees are hard to come by. It looks like some people just appointed themselves as climatologists."
ReplyDeleteWhile that may be true in a strict sense, there is a huge difference between someone who with a degree in atmospheric sciences and a degree in economics.
Economists are not real scientists in the sense that is being used here (ie, those who study "natural science") and it is simply ridiculous that some of them seem to think they are qualified to weigh in on the physics of climate change. They do not have th proper background to understand the issues involved -- and it shows. Several of them have demonstrated beyond any doubt whatsoever that they are simply clueless on climate science. It is actually embarrassing -- or at least it should be for them.
What is it about Czechs that makes them say stupid things?
ReplyDeleteFrom the Moron report:
"Czech-born U.S. climatologist Dr. George Kukla, a research scientist with the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University expressed climate skepticism in 2007. "The only thing to worry about is the damage that can be done by worrying. Why are some scientists worried? Perhaps because they feel that to stop worrying may mean to stop being paid," Kukla told Gelf Magazine on April 24, 2007.
Tonight on the CBC National Peter Mansbridge stated that "there is evidence (and more to follow) that man made global warming may not be the only reason that ice is melting in the Arctic. Studies now show that it is a natural phenomenon that is cyclical in nature."
ReplyDeleteThis is a big admission on the part of the "believers". They will be back paddling for the rest of the year as the evidence mounts that they have been soooo wrong about this issue.
To the TV weathermen must be added John Kettley of the UK. He does have a background in fluid dynamics, but the evidence for his scepticism is based on an article in the populist tabloid Daily Mail, in which he points out that severe weather does not prove GW (but nowhere denies the existence of GW)
ReplyDeleteIt would not be impolite to describe Kettley as a celebrity weatherman, in fact here is the list of services his one-man business can supply ...
Advertising & Marketing Campaigns & Product Launches (particularly weather sensitive products & services).
Television & Radio Shows.
Sports Guru & Associate Presenter (especially cricket & horse racing).
After Dinner Speeches.
Seminars (as a Speaker or as your Chairman for the day).
Shows & Public Events (as a Speaker or as your Chairman for the day).
Meteorological Consultant.
'Prominent Scientist' must just be a hobby or something ...
http://www.johnkettley.co.uk/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/bbcweather/forecasters/johnkettley.shtml
Wow this is some crazy info! I didnt know so many people were into this! Thanks for the info!
ReplyDelete