tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post8925146173541300438..comments2024-03-18T03:27:18.777-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Stealth Issue Advocate PielkeEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-27886846356147407172014-03-31T07:24:40.930-04:002014-03-31T07:24:40.930-04:00Everybody has heard of the elder starting comparat...Everybody has heard of the elder starting comparative linguistics, and the younger founding physical ecology, but how Sagan talked the squid out of the <i>Cosmos</i> franchise is a complete mystery.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-13846046899319102342014-03-31T07:18:46.266-04:002014-03-31T07:18:46.266-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-13718041552207519452014-03-31T05:15:21.954-04:002014-03-31T05:15:21.954-04:00Of the assorted Humboldts, I have always preferred...Of the assorted Humboldts, I have always preferred the squid.<br /><br />You'll perhaps be amused to know that during my childhood, and who knows, perhaps to this day, Humboldt, Iowa, named after one or another of them, was home to the Reasoner Casket Company. Reason in those parts always did seem to me to be rather embalmed. <br /><br />That Morrill Act language sounds plenty researchy to me, Russell. But regardless of when the term got formally applied, organized science in the U.S. seems to have been following that template from the outset (with later additions, of course).<br /><br />It occurs to me to wonder if RP Jr. is representing Bernal very accurately.<br />Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-4196680869724363782014-03-31T03:26:06.041-04:002014-03-31T03:26:06.041-04:00Steve may be eliding Alexander von Humboldt, who h...Steve may be eliding Alexander von Humboldt, who helped Thomas Jefferson draft Lewis & Clark's marching orders, and Wilhelm v.H., the Prussian Minister of Education who quite despaired of exporting critical historiography to America. The idea of the research university didn't take hold here until well after the Civil War <br /><br />But thanks for the link which provides welcome relief from ecopolitical epopolia-- not even Rush Limbaugh can match Marx at full gargle: <br /><br />"<i>From the commencement of the titanic American strife the workingmen of Europe felt instinctively that the star-spangled banner carried the destiny of their class. <br /><br />The contest for the territories which opened the dire epopee, was it not to decide whether the virgin soil of immense tracts should be wedded to the labor of the emigrant or prostituted by the tramp of the slave driver?</i>"THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-86988335756219594522014-03-31T01:26:13.506-04:002014-03-31T01:26:13.506-04:00Sez RP Jr.:
"It is ironic that this conser...Sez RP Jr.: <br /><br />"It is ironic that this conservative Republican's demands that research be carefully planned and focused on social objectives can be traced directly to the writings of an Irish-born communist crystallographer 75 years ago."<br /><br />Sez Wikipedia re <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university" rel="nofollow">land-grant universities</a>: <br /><br />"A land-grant university (also called land-grant college or land-grant institution) is an institution of higher education in the United States designated by a state to receive the benefits of the Morrill Acts of 1862 and 1890.<br /><br />"The Morrill Acts funded educational institutions by granting federally controlled land to the states for them to sell to raise funds to establish and endow "land-grant" colleges. <b>The mission of these institutions as set forth in the 1862 Act is to focus on the teaching of practical agriculture, science, military science and engineering</b> (though "without excluding ... classical studies"), as a response to the industrial revolution and changing social class. This mission was in contrast to the historic practice of higher education to focus on an abstract liberal arts curriculum." (emphasis added)<br /><br />But really this was just the U.S. manifestation of the Humboldtian model for universities instituted in Germany decades earlier.<br /><br />Note that it was Lincoln who signed the 1862 act, and a product of a German research university was a well-known <a href="https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/iwma/documents/1864/lincoln-letter.htm" rel="nofollow">fan boy</a> of his. Mere coincidence? I'm sure RP Jr. wouldn't think so. <br /> Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-58153142664912288882014-03-31T00:43:17.551-04:002014-03-31T00:43:17.551-04:00But correlation is really, really not causation, R...But correlation is really, really not causation, Russell, especially when it comes to this sort of thing. WW II e.g. had a lot more to do with the present shape of science in this country than any of the stuff/people RP Jr. mentions, although the direction of things was already quite apparent by the time of the 1939 World's Fair. Bernal may have been the first to run a spreadsheet on the nascent new system, but that's a descriptive rather than proscriptive role, maybe useful for thinking about it but nothing to do with why and how it happened.<br /><br />That the erroneousness of that article wasn't apparent to the Nature editors is kind of depressing.Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-58715556478703636712014-03-30T18:40:17.762-04:002014-03-30T18:40:17.762-04:00There is cause for bipartisan concern when anybun...There is cause for bipartisan concern when anybunny forgets that ideas have antecedents.<br /><br />Science is socially constructed, and the extent of the continuing influence of Bernal and Haldane is as evident in today's political discourse-- CF Climate Progress, as when I wrote of it in <i>The National Interest</i> in the 80's and 90's.<br /><br />I think <i>Nature</i>'s continuing refusal to collapse into a single political dimension is something John Maddox would approve. THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-6296852667104397172014-03-30T16:34:02.096-04:002014-03-30T16:34:02.096-04:00Corporate money will buy the Senate for the GOP in...Corporate money will buy the Senate for the GOP in 2014. President Obama will have veto power to protect NASA, NOAA, NCAR and climate research generally unless there are enough votes to override.<br /><br />Fast forward to the 2016 election. Corporations will not hesitate laying down several billion dollars to win in 2014 and 2016. Kochs threw down $400 million in 2012.<br /><br />The 1% are almost there. House locked up for years; Senate GOP majority, a republican in the Oval Office.<br /><br />They will kill NIOSH, OSHA, Roe v Wade, renewable energy (gas and oil predators) and Roger-dodger will be welcomed into the new President's office.<br /><br />Yes, the climate is changing and our children will suffer the full effects.<br /><br />John McCormick<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-90802777759415196022014-03-30T16:18:20.674-04:002014-03-30T16:18:20.674-04:00An excerpt from an interesting opinion piece by Da...An excerpt from an interesting opinion piece by Dale Jamieson appearing on Salon:<br /><br />What is most troubling about Pielke Jr.’s account is its lack of balance. As we will see, the politicization of science by a handful of climate change deniers and their patrons is extremely well documented, and continues to be a major obstacle to the United States adopting effective climate policy. Yet in a 26-page chapter on the politicization of science, Pielke Jr. devotes only one paragraph to the behavior of those “opposed to action on climate change.” Their worst offense seems to be “[blowing] out of proportion papers at odds with the views of most other scientists.” If only.<br /><br />http://www.salon.com/2014/03/29/the_rights_new_climate_change_lie_its_all_the_scientists_fault/Magmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-14736746979598362112014-03-30T15:22:31.877-04:002014-03-30T15:22:31.877-04:00'someone with very strong credentials'
Ev...'someone with very strong credentials'<br /><br />Evidence that Nate Silver and his 538 are data driven? I think not.<br /><br />Nate and Roger's 'credentials' don't seem to ba able to pass the most superficial of 'credibility' tests.Thomas Lee Elifritzhttp://cosmic.lifeform.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-7964647125356526892014-03-30T13:25:58.693-04:002014-03-30T13:25:58.693-04:00FYI, Roger is on spring hols., so this is the time...FYI, Roger is on spring hols., so this is the time to soundly refute his nonsense and clear the Pielkian fog before he returns ;)<br /><br />Und that is exactly what the Eli seems to be doing...more carrots for Eli!Albatrosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14444036939651524737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-66566433251558462352014-03-30T12:51:33.647-04:002014-03-30T12:51:33.647-04:00From HuffPost:
--"I do not threaten," Pi...From HuffPost:<br />--"I do not threaten," Pielke told HuffPost, adding that he found "the idea offensive that they would characterize my correspondence in this way."--<br />--"In a nutshell this is ridiculous."--<br /><br />But the text of the Trenberth email, according to the article, reads: <br /><br />--"Pielke wrote that Trenberth had "made some pretty coarse and perhaps even libelous comments" in the ThinkProgress article. Pielke requested that Trenberth correct his public claims and noted that "an apology would be nice also."--<br />and:<br />--"Once again, I am formally asking you for a public correction and apology," Pielke wrote to Trenberth and his bosses. "If that is not forthcoming I will be pursuing this further"--<br /><br /><br />Also, Pielke's characterization of the email exchange was<br />--"but rather to two scientific peers I have known for decades."--<br /><br />This email was sent to, at least, Trenberth's bosses, making it much more than "his [Pielke's] correspondence to the two colleagues".<br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/28/fivethirtyeight-climate-change-dispute_n_5049279.html<br /><br />-SM<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-12903442669025085352014-03-30T08:44:15.530-04:002014-03-30T08:44:15.530-04:00Pielke's opinion in Nature is typical of his f...Pielke's opinion in Nature is typical of his fuzzy thimblerigging but his implicit leaning is still there.<br /><br />I'd be surprised if there wasn't an ascerbic relpy or two in the next few weeks or so, and I'm sure that there will be some mild commentary on the blog.Bernard J.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-15706512192843592022014-03-30T08:31:18.336-04:002014-03-30T08:31:18.336-04:00I rather doubt Roger the Dodger gives a damn about...<i>I rather doubt Roger the Dodger gives a damn about science or society.</i><br /><br />I concur. I think he just wants his dad to be proud of him.<br /><br />I'm like that too, but my dad isn't buddies with folks like Anthony Watts, you know. And his brain didn't fossilize because of the Cold War.Nevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15413215743703093876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-38278577163746059172014-03-30T08:14:17.232-04:002014-03-30T08:14:17.232-04:00Science by its very nature is a service to society...Science by its very nature is a service to society. And I trust scientists to know what is most likely to advance science--and therefore society--much more than I trust a bunch of semi-numerate politicians. <br /><br />It is a pity that people have forgotten Vannevar Bush. That said, I rather doubt Roger the Dodger gives a damn about science or society.a_ray_in_dilbert_spacenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-17295418845565723002014-03-30T08:08:45.744-04:002014-03-30T08:08:45.744-04:00I read Pielke's Nature article as well. Given ...I read Pielke's Nature article as well. Given his agenda, I can only interpret it as: "Scientists who want to serve society instead of doing science for the sake of (pure) science, want the government to plan what science is done, and consensus is automatically communism, inevitably leading to lysenkoism. J.D. Bernal is conclusive proof of this, and his ideas have changed history to the point that it is highly influential today, and thus climate science consensus must be communism."<br /><br />I'm pretty neutral on the question whether scientists should serve the public interest, or should be free to do whatever they like. I think it's a bit of both, really. But coming from Pielke, I suspect the atmosphere he wants to create is: climate science isn't settled, trying to settle it is communism, and therefore do nothing, or almost nothing, at least not systemic.<br /><br />It's a much more devious method to undermine climate policy, (hence my greater disdain for Pielke than for folks like Watts).<br /><br />Considering the fact that Pielke is from '68 (just 6 years older than me), I find it quite surprising to see the underlying Cold War-mentality behind all this. His father must have (had) a great influence on his thinking.<br /><br />I also find it surprising that Nature publishes this wolf in sheep's clothing kind of article.Nevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15413215743703093876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-23051255858301146922014-03-30T05:00:03.901-04:002014-03-30T05:00:03.901-04:00Russell,
I read Roger's Nature article. Didn&...Russell,<br />I read Roger's Nature article. Didn't really know what to make of it. Just seemed rather confused, but maybe that was just me. And Then There's Physicshttp://andthentheresphysics.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-1843981486222537612014-03-30T00:16:19.039-04:002014-03-30T00:16:19.039-04:00To understand what Roger is about , best hop over...To understand what Roger is about , best hop over to <i>Nature </i>and read his <a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v507/n7493/full/507427a.html" rel="nofollow"> rediscovery of the founding father of Framing,</a> J.D. Bernal.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.com