tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post6247099773681243275..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Dispatchable hydropower versus pumped storage, Round 2EliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-84000399565598901982020-09-07T17:01:34.625-04:002020-09-07T17:01:34.625-04:00TCW - watershed-wide evaporation isn't relevan...TCW - watershed-wide evaporation isn't relevant - you can't control it and wouldn't want to. The issue I'm responding to is whether evaporation from reservoirs constitutes a significant problem with reservoirs.<br /><br />I highly doubt reservoirs lose more than few percent of their water to evaporation, maybe much less than that. Water delivery systems routinely lose 10-25% to leakage.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09301230860904555513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-24074215467154116702020-09-04T03:32:40.648-04:002020-09-04T03:32:40.648-04:00Please run some numbers comparing
"leakage ...Please run some numbers comparing<br /> <br />"leakage in transmission". <br /><br />with evaoration from delivey canals -<br /><br />A watershed evaprates all the way fron the headwaters down, and the area of a fractally branched fluvial system must be measured before it can be compared to leakage, THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-8467682530425835922020-08-27T01:35:11.935-04:002020-08-27T01:35:11.935-04:00Ken - I think you're right, and we'll see ...Ken - I think you're right, and we'll see larger price signals for stored power as renewables increase their share. Maybe solar thermal storage will have a comeback.<br /><br />Ben - some pumped hydro is very cheap. The advantage of my proposal though is that you don't have to construct anything.<br /><br />Climate Wars - evaporation from reservoirs is a problem, although my sense is that it's a second-order problem compared to say leakage in transmission. Floatovoltaics will somewhat reduce evaporation. Groundwater storage does have an advantage of no evaporation compared to reservoirs. Still, it's not the biggest issue IMO.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09301230860904555513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-62988756572184293662020-08-24T16:54:42.134-04:002020-08-24T16:54:42.134-04:00Does hydro reservoir evaporation control come und...Does hydro reservoir evaporation control come under the heading of <br /><br />" and everything else we can do "?<br /><br />Or is the moral hazard of actually mitigating AGW impacts too 'orrible to contemplate?THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-12409255971467423482020-08-22T02:19:10.741-04:002020-08-22T02:19:10.741-04:00Many of the conventional hydro schemes were also b...Many of the conventional hydro schemes were also built partly for irrigation purposes, so release may be tied in to needs of water users.<br /><br />Pumped hydro is less disruptive from that point of view: the impact there depends on whether the upper/lower reservoirs already exist and how problematic it is for the water level to change.<br /><br />But the main market opportunity seems to be for four hours of storage or less; hard to see how new pumped hydro could compete with batteries.Ben McMillanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16539329292550849050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-59404031462614599032020-08-21T19:23:50.981-04:002020-08-21T19:23:50.981-04:00There is a significant problem on the river itself...There is a significant problem on the river itself, where flow variability can be extreme. This can have significant impacts on the river ecology. Of course, there is no such thing as a free lunch.Old_salthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11660908947626378366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-53002259708601276652020-08-20T21:02:40.627-04:002020-08-20T21:02:40.627-04:00Seems like conversion of existing flow through hyd...Seems like conversion of existing flow through hydro to backup for solar and wind is simpler than dedicated pumped hydro - and wholesale time of use pricing will favour such conversion by inducing higher pricing during periods of low solar and wind availability. I would think conversion would involve increasing the peak output capability to better optimise for varying output with the same water flow - bigger or more downhill pipes and associated turbines mostly. But existing plant could tap into such market opportunities. How that market is structured and regulated may be more crucial than the specific technologies. <br /><br />As an aside I think the "failures" of solar thermal with thermal storage may have had the absence of clear market arrangements as a contributing factor - with power plants simply turned down (and no carbon pricing) then turning them back up was cheaper than turning to stored energy. Without markets that price dispatchable, fast response backup power higher than "baseload" there was no financial benefit to including storage. <br /><br />In places with significant amounts of wind and solar the economics of storage have changed and the real value - as worth significantly more than an average daily price - becomes more obvious. Ken Fabianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15774574952211541339noreply@blogger.com