tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post5865407467384125470..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Roger Sr. Takes a BathEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-1417727416540992682011-10-23T20:43:37.719-04:002011-10-23T20:43:37.719-04:00O/T
Eli, there's this great little monograph ...O/T<br /><br />Eli, there's this great little monograph on a Eunice Foote who appears to have demonstrated the CO2 greenhouse effect 3 years before Tyndall.<br /><br />http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/documents/2011/70092sorenson/ndx_sorenson.pdf<br /><br />"...Thirdly, a high effect of the sun's rays is produced in carbonic acid gas. One receiver being filled with carbonic acid, the other with common air, the temperature of the gas in the sun was raised twenty degrees above that of the air. The receiver containing the gas became very sensibly hotter than the other, and was much longer in cooling. An atmosphere of that gas would give to our earth a much higher temperature; and if there once was, as some suppose, a larger proportion of that gas in the air, an increased temperature must have accompanied it, both from the nature of the gas and the increased density of the atmosphere. Mrs. Foote had also tried the heating effect of the sun's rays on hydrogen and oxygen, and found the former to be less, the latter more, susceptible to the heating action of sunlight" (Wells, 1857, p. 159-160).<br /><br />I emailed the monograph author. The source is <a href="http://www.archive.org/stream/annualscientifi02crosgoog#page/n169/mode/2up" rel="nofollow">legitimate.</a> There have been mixed reactions and William Connolley was dubious about the figures, which I think don't matter as much as the conclusions. Anyway, he recommended I try you for an opinion.<br /><br />As I said at <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2011/10/feynman_on_brahe.php#comment-5608654" rel="nofollow">Stoat</a>,<br /><br />I'm kind of thrilled that in an era when women were much less of a force in science, Eunice Foote may very well have been the first person in the world to demonstrate the greenhouse effect with CO2. No need to rewrite the history books, but this is certainly worth acknowledging, to my mind.<br /><br />So I'm doing a little pushing.<br /><br />barryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-83136812286816422162011-10-23T14:59:34.313-04:002011-10-23T14:59:34.313-04:00Might be of interest...
Billions of Blow Dryers: ...Might be of interest...<br /><br />Billions of Blow Dryers: Some Missing Heat Returns to Haunt Us<br />Posted on 23 September 2010 by doug_bostrom<br /><a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/billions-of-blow-dryers.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.skepticalscience.com</a><br /><br />Purkey, S. G., and G. C. Johnson. 2010. Warming of global abyssal and deep Southern Ocean waters Between the 1990s and 2000s: Contributions to global heat and sea level rise budgets. Journal of Climate, 23, 6336-6351, doi:10.1175/2010JCLI3682.1.<br /><a href="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/people/gjohnson/gcj_3w.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.pmel.noaa.gov (pdf)</a><br /><br />Have to wonder what the added abyssal heat will mean for Antarctic methane hydrates as well as the sub-ice channels of the West Antarctic.Timothy Chasehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16400529485899488733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-79792664675797476112011-10-21T22:08:19.392-04:002011-10-21T22:08:19.392-04:00Will Keenan be calling the FBI.... again?Will Keenan be calling the FBI.... again?J Bowersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-33832413861346601502011-10-21T14:30:31.898-04:002011-10-21T14:30:31.898-04:00The Durban climate change conference is coming up....The Durban climate change conference is coming up. What dirty tricks will the deniers pull ahead of this meeting? What faked up scandals will they push this time?<br /><br />http://www.cop17-cmp7durban.com/Holly Stickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01137842937086115228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-46794873931768725642011-10-21T04:37:02.916-04:002011-10-21T04:37:02.916-04:00"...are simply made up.""...are simply made up."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-68384534758600978182011-10-21T03:49:06.961-04:002011-10-21T03:49:06.961-04:00Sheesh.
I tried to get some answers from Judith C...Sheesh.<br /><br />I tried to get some answers from Judith Curry regarding her "Uncertainty Monster" paper, all in vain. Guess what, it turns out that some of her claims are simply made it.<br /><br />http://judithcurry.com/2011/09/10/uncertainty-monster-paper-in-press/#comment-124677<br />http://judithcurry.com/2011/10/17/self-organizing-model-of-the-atmosphere/#comment-125240doskonaleszarehttp://doskonaleszare.blox.plnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-51457995243229849092011-10-20T16:05:39.807-04:002011-10-20T16:05:39.807-04:00In other news, the BEST results have been released...In other news, the BEST results have been released. Papers are <a href="http://berkeleyearth.org/resources.php" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Nothing surprising, station siting findings of previous paper are confirmed, UHI effects (about 0, they actually found a slight cool bias) found in previous papers confirmed. The earth is still warming.<br /><br />Over at Judy's, to, connect this with RP Sr., Rodger is throwing mud by complaining that the datasets used in all the surface analysis have overlap in stations used. Ugh.<br /><br />And poor, poor, put upon Tony is complaining about a paper which confirms the results of a paper on which he was an author!Rattus Norvegicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03449457204330125792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-89326007621681732412011-10-20T15:46:31.878-04:002011-10-20T15:46:31.878-04:00And now some Koch-funded experts assure us that it...And now some Koch-funded experts assure us that it is getting warmer, much to their surprise:<br /><br />http://www.economist.com/node/21533360Holly Stickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01137842937086115228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-40373987493175056742011-10-19T15:19:52.266-04:002011-10-19T15:19:52.266-04:00planet30 is down by the way. Just index and favico...planet30 is down by the way. Just index and favicon.Flavius Colliumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-59632322324094471752011-10-18T22:19:55.546-04:002011-10-18T22:19:55.546-04:00Please stop by Real Climate to leave a note of app...Please stop by Real Climate to leave a note of appreciation and congradulations for Gavin Schmidt.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-53361770499112943502011-10-18T08:43:55.294-04:002011-10-18T08:43:55.294-04:00The 'Real Climate' link goes to the same l...The 'Real Climate' link goes to the same link for 'Our Changing Climate'. You need :<br /><br />http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/10/global-warming-and-ocean-heat-content/JMurphynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-69150283848544397182011-10-18T04:17:42.274-04:002011-10-18T04:17:42.274-04:00A tidbit:
http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontri...A tidbit:<br /><br />http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/AirSpace/text/SSAS-0001.txt<br /><br />"Internal Waves in the Oceans<br />Internal waves are interesting features that have<br />puzzled oceanographers since they were first recog-<br />nized in Landsat images (Apel and Charnell, 1974).<br />They are not related to surface waves, but occur deep<br />within the ocean. These waves extend for hundreds of<br />kilometers. They are believed to occur at temperature<br />or density discontinuities between water layers, and<br />characteristically have a wavelength of a few kilo-<br />meters. They appear to be visible from above due to<br />the accumulation of scum lines atop their crests. Areas<br />selected for internal wave investigations included the<br />Mediterranean Sea, the Atlantic Ocean west of Spain,<br />the waters between the two islands of New Zealand,<br />and the waters of the Gulf of California."Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-32313383769998503392011-10-17T21:04:49.645-04:002011-10-17T21:04:49.645-04:00And the Loeb et al. paper mentioned as submitted t...And the Loeb et al. paper mentioned as submitted to Nature that Roy Spencer couldn't find seems to be mentioned here:<br /><br />http://www.irc-iamas.org/files/GEB_Report_IRC2011.doc<br />IRC working group Global Energy Balance (GEB) Annual Report 2011<br />Martin Wild and Norman Loeb (WG Co-chairs) <br /><br />"... this working group, entitled “Towards an improved understanding of the Global Energy Balance: absorption of solar radiation”. This proposal has been accepted in April and a PhD student has been assigned to start working September 1. The project aims at reducing the uncertainties in the absorption of solar radiation within the climate system, through the use of the information contained in worldwide surface radiation measurements in combination with satellite products. The project will make extensive use of the comprehensive dataset of surface radiation measurements from the Global Energy Balance Archive (GEBA), as well as of the Baseline Surface Radiation Network (BSRN). These data will be combined with recent satellite data (in particular CERES and MODIS) to quantify the top of the atmosphere fluxes and surface albedo. This will provide a unique dataset of key reference (anchor) stations to investigate the disposition and variation of solar radiation in the climate system, as well as its representation in climate models and satellite-derived products. <br /><br /> In collaboration with working group member Chuck Long, we are currently updating clear sky solar radiative fluxes at the BSRN sites, based on the Long and Ackermann (2000) clear-sky detection algorithm. These fluxes will allow the construction of monthly clear sky estimates at the BSRN sites, which will enable the estimation of trends in surface solar radiation under cloud-free conditions as well as the determination of solar absorption in the cloud-free atmospheric column above the sites. ..."Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-3854095605001577642011-10-17T17:18:35.567-04:002011-10-17T17:18:35.567-04:00Aside: Purkey & Johnson attacked by Spencer at...Aside: Purkey & Johnson attacked by Spencer at http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/08/is-gores-missing-heat-really-hiding-in-the-deep-ocean/#comment-19915Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-63987480163596957852011-10-17T17:15:12.434-04:002011-10-17T17:15:12.434-04:00Figure 1: Pattern Diagram of Thermohaline Circulat...Figure 1: Pattern Diagram of Thermohaline Circulation<br />in the review <a href="http://www.nistep.go.jp/achiev/ftx/eng/stfc/stt039e/qr39pdf/STTqr3905.pdf" rel="nofollow">article</a> Steve Bloom points to above is the clearest I've ever seen. It says:<br />Source: Prepared by the STFC based on Reference[4] and data provided by Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and TechnologyHank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-87181946097335759862011-10-17T11:03:26.091-04:002011-10-17T11:03:26.091-04:00KAP,
The depth of the thermocline varies quite a ...KAP,<br /><br />The depth of the thermocline varies quite a bit, as does the height of the tropopause, <br /><br />http://www.esr.org/outreach/glossary/thermocline.html<br /><br />The 700 m depth is arbitrary and more a function of the depth limitations of the XBTs than anything else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-88845944241360900142011-10-17T01:17:25.572-04:002011-10-17T01:17:25.572-04:00And if one cares for the mathematics,
On the inter...And if one cares for the mathematics,<br /><i>On the internal Kelvin waves in a two-layer liquid model </i><br />http://www.mathnet.ru/php/archive.phtml?wshow=paper&jrnid=sjvm&paperid=444&option_lang=engDavid B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-45477877484353480412011-10-16T23:54:19.838-04:002011-10-16T23:54:19.838-04:00Te article linked by James Annan makes the role of...Te article linked by <b>James Annan</b> makes the role of an internal Kelvin wave quite clear: speedy.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-59711362702669102762011-10-16T21:04:52.019-04:002011-10-16T21:04:52.019-04:00For the most part, you're right. However, I be...For the most part, you're right. However, I believe I heard Kerry Emanuel talking about the role of tropical cyclones in mixing surface heat downwards and through that potentially polewards. So it is a bit more complicated.<br /> watermouseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-12576555135210953382011-10-16T20:04:12.386-04:002011-10-16T20:04:12.386-04:00James' reference says faster (than advection!)...James' reference says faster (than advection!), Steve's says slower (somehow). All at a site called Rabett Run. Go ask Alice. <br /><br />Pete DunkelbergAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-58806390437611460032011-10-16T19:21:45.446-04:002011-10-16T19:21:45.446-04:00James Annan --- The link you provided has a most f...<b>James Annan</b> --- The link you provided has a most fascinating abstract; thank you.<br /><br /><b>KAP</b> --- Thank you.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-7727879900016010362011-10-16T18:54:04.639-04:002011-10-16T18:54:04.639-04:00700 meters is "special" for the same rea...700 meters is "special" for the same reason the tropopause is "special": that's roughly where the thermocline stops. Below that level, ocean temps change only very slowly.KAPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11189506171267750391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-57893230052530528012011-10-16T18:52:20.217-04:002011-10-16T18:52:20.217-04:00Purkey & Johnson (2010), also.<a href="http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.173.2607&rep=rep1&type=pdf" rel="nofollow">Purkey & Johnson (2010)</a>, also.Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-13205121147587896162011-10-16T18:45:43.874-04:002011-10-16T18:45:43.874-04:00That's quite the wrinkle, James. I can't ...That's quite the wrinkle, James. I can't find a copy of that paper (perhaps you know of one on the JAMSTEC site?), but I did locate a subsequent review <a href="http://www.nistep.go.jp/achiev/ftx/eng/stfc/stt039e/qr39pdf/STTqr3905.pdf" rel="nofollow">article</a> by one of the co-authors. At a very quick skim, it seems to include the relevant discussion. <br /><br />Also, I notice that for these purposes "deep ocean" seems to start way below 700 meters. IIRC a recent paper on the Agulhas Current leakage into the Atlantic found that its heat was being transported north at middle depths, which further complicates things.Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-47656354793054316062011-10-16T15:13:05.179-04:002011-10-16T15:13:05.179-04:00> In this model the deep ocean equilibrates wit...> In this model the deep ocean equilibrates with the atmosphere before the 0-700 m level.<br /><br />That seems a bit hard to believe, because there is such a huge amount of deep ocean.<br /><br />What I could believe (as a pure amateur) is that all the heat reaching the deep ocean comes through these two, three hot spots, and nothing through the regular 700 m interface. Then all of the increase in heat content is coming in through the top, including the global-warming extra.<br /><br />What does this mean for the ARGO measurements? I think next to nothing. ARGO measures temperatures, not fluxes...Martin Vermeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04537045395760606324noreply@blogger.com