tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post4016505870639863211..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: The Ethical Depravity of Wishing Coal and Oil on the PoorEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger75125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-6179269455824413832017-04-03T05:24:59.621-04:002017-04-03T05:24:59.621-04:00Thanks for sharing nice informative article. Reall...Thanks for sharing nice informative article. Really its amazing. For best buy online Firewood for sale you may follow :<a href="http://www.meckowoods.com/products/firewood-and-logs" rel="nofollow">buy Firewood online Europe</a>George Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04025602778219029084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-25370159309371375112017-01-12T14:34:44.407-05:002017-01-12T14:34:44.407-05:00There's an interesting company operatig in Hai...There's an interesting company operatig in Haiti called Sigora Haiti who are doing good things with microgrids:<br /><br />http://sigorahaiti.com/<br /><br />They're well worth checking out. <br /><br />The problem with supplying heat electrically is that you need an order of magnitude more energy than you need for a refrigerator, lighting, washing machine, TV, phones, computer etc etc combined. It must impose a big load on microgrids, renewable supplies and storage. Sigora seem to be buildling a micro grid that can handle electric heat so all power to them but I do wonder whether there's a way of sticking with the cleaner end of fossil fuels (bottled gas too expensive?) to free up renewable electricity for everything else.<br /><br />Related to that, Hans Rosling considers the washing machine a key development technology but then seems to push centralised FF generation and large scale grids as the solution to enable its deployment (at least I seem to remember he was doing that a few years ago). Surely there is scope for someone to come up with a really robust, primarily solar water heated washing machine design for the developing world that uses very little electricity. Again, offloading the heat reduces power needs dramatically. Modern detergents can wash at low temperatures so it seems a no brainer to me. But so far, nothing as far as I can make out. <br /><br />Anyway, there are some random thoughts :)JamieBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08115122688261135818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-15750508878957990992017-01-08T09:47:37.319-05:002017-01-08T09:47:37.319-05:00Their are majic words on Rabett Run. Use em and E...Their are majic words on Rabett Run. Use em and Eli will lose your commentsEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-77000671647801544352017-01-06T14:50:51.942-05:002017-01-06T14:50:51.942-05:00https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinion...https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/01/05/as-socialist-venezuela-collapses-socialist-bolivia-thrives-heres-why/Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-75506101917411048432017-01-04T18:17:36.812-05:002017-01-04T18:17:36.812-05:00You are a small man, Russell. But fortunately, it ...You are a small man, Russell. But fortunately, it takes all kinds!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-13435975456128425602017-01-04T16:52:39.184-05:002017-01-04T16:52:39.184-05:00Sorry, 8c-- I meant to say a small talking do...Sorry, 8c-- I meant to say a <i> small</i> talking dog.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-44450589761102977972017-01-04T09:35:34.224-05:002017-01-04T09:35:34.224-05:00What a depraved pack of concern trolling there. Ug...What a depraved pack of concern trolling there. Ugh. Ugh!!<br /><br />There is one thing Ayn Rand got right. You don't present facts with 'imo', 'it seems to me that' et cetera. You present facts as facts. <br /><br />So, please, magmacc, not 'It seems to me your comment contains a straw man argument or two of your own, Tom.' That's diplomacy with thugs. The comment is riddled with straw men and concern trolling depravity and might I suggest a different way of phrasing that? "F.O." will do fine!cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-22449649985845008732017-01-04T09:30:40.215-05:002017-01-04T09:30:40.215-05:00"If we can do that with solar then hooray for..."If we can do that with solar then hooray for solar. But it cannot at present." - thanks to e.g. you, Tom*. There's no other cause. <br /><br />India just took over the weekly sharpened largest solar plant record. <br /><br />*note: it is criminal.cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-72088357449763753352017-01-02T09:05:20.193-05:002017-01-02T09:05:20.193-05:00That's not a physicist;
It's an engineer ...<i>That's not a physicist;</i><br /><br />It's an engineer and a mathematician as well, Russel, the people who inform you to use a scissor and not a chain saw for certain cutting tasks. But you have your own personal agenda, and you have FREEDOM and LIBERTY! So perhaps the chain saw is more appropriate for your task of allowing nature to maximize entropy every darn time it comes up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-2221673992355962882017-01-02T01:55:37.037-05:002017-01-02T01:55:37.037-05:00Russell, thanks for the Yorkshire miner clip. Dose...Russell, thanks for the Yorkshire miner clip. Doses of reality are welcome. (I'm reading a horrifying review of the Mosul dam in my current New Yorker - likely to be a disaster on the scale of a tsunami. What fools we mortals be!)Susan Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16935228911713362040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-18231007204863180852017-01-02T00:37:29.588-05:002017-01-02T00:37:29.588-05:00"So as physicist I understand that intelligen..."So as physicist I understand that intelligence and decision making control entropy production."<br /><br />That's not a physicist; it's a teleologist with a talking dog.<br /><br /><br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-78596810630149654752016-12-31T22:24:10.756-05:002016-12-31T22:24:10.756-05:00Electricity for small users in Germany has ALWAYS ...Electricity for small users in Germany has ALWAYS been expensive which is why so many of them put in PV. EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-42982354829471814102016-12-31T20:34:06.475-05:002016-12-31T20:34:06.475-05:00With both China and India, you need to watch what ...<i>With both China and India, you need to watch what they do as well as what they say. They say they're headed to renewables, what they are doing is spelled c o a l. </i><br /><br />But this is industrial energy. It has nothing do to with lighting the darkness of the rural poor. So rhetoric about coal as succor for the energy impoverished is hollow. At best. BBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687930416706386215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-42628185109285901032016-12-31T20:16:36.152-05:002016-12-31T20:16:36.152-05:00BBD: Happy New Year to you, too. btw, I think yo...BBD: Happy New Year to you, too. btw, I think you're right there's no money in the villages in India to pay for electrification, but it is happening via national government assembling funding source. hard to reach all those villages, but someone forgot to tell the Indians. Here's the link:<br />http://powermin.nic.in/en/content/rural-electrification <br />And as a result the NEA projects in the WEO that India, which has already become the number 2 coal producer, is expected to become the number 1 world coal importer by 2020. Add those two stat's together, that's a whole lot of coal. Here's a link to that:<br />http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/media/weowebsite/2015/WEO2015_Chapter01.pdf <br />With both China and India, you need to watch what they do as well as what they say. They say they're headed to renewables, what they are doing is spelled c o a l.TWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15908079545227158821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-74766768448345867432016-12-31T19:27:23.975-05:002016-12-31T19:27:23.975-05:00Here's a link : https://www.cleanenergywire.or...Here's a link : https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-households-pay-powerAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07784872872859319666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-24508338033337122982016-12-31T19:22:01.685-05:002016-12-31T19:22:01.685-05:00Electricity for small users in Germany has been ex...Electricity for small users in Germany has been expensive because of the levy used to finance the green transition. Historically large users were paying a rate that was less than one percent of what small users had to pay. This had the perverse effect of rewarding higher electricity use. Notwithstanding that, wholesale prices have fallen thanks to the merit order effect of renewables. In addition the levy was used to subsidise efficiency measures: the average German uses less than 1,000 kWh/year. The levy for them is less than 7 Euro cents per kWh. So for their green transition they pay about 70 euros per year. That's less than two dollars per week but in reality much lessif you take into account the benefits. Apparently this is more than the citizens of the supposed greatest country on the face of the earth are prepare to pay...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07784872872859319666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-79880469087166400652016-12-31T19:15:09.725-05:002016-12-31T19:15:09.725-05:00TW
I'm talking about lifting people out of p...TW<br /><br /><i> I'm talking about lifting people out of poverty. India has 240 million people with no electricity. they want to get them electricity.</i><br /><br />They are mostly rural and there is no money in the villages. So there's no money in it for the utilities to go to the immense cost and engineering effort of extending the grid(s) right through the rural subcontinent. In fact I'm pretty sure that this will never happen. There is no business case for doing it. <br /><br />Therefore new coal plant <i>cannot</i> be the answer to the problem of alleviating rural energy poverty, whatever the coal industry may say.<br /><br />* * *<br /><br />But whatever, Happy New Year.<br />BBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687930416706386215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-46106149805739785082016-12-31T19:00:02.148-05:002016-12-31T19:00:02.148-05:00Thanks, BBD, for the first substantive comment. F...Thanks, BBD, for the first substantive comment. For awhile there, I had almost given up on getting anything substantive back on this thread.<br /><br />8c7, alas, is a good example of what I mean about no substantive comment. All ad hom, all the time. For instance, now he's saying I want to prescribe that poor countries use coal. I'm saying don't proscribe using coal, like by denying funding for a coal power plant. China decided to build all those coal plants because the market decided -- coal was cheaper. <br /><br />I really find these online debates fun, and try to avoid saying the person is dumb, it's the argument that I will say is dumb. There's a difference. <br /><br />ODI is a liberal think tank, but they have assembled all the arguments for non-fossil energy to reduce poverty in this reference you provided, which was new to me. I'll look it over. TWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15908079545227158821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-89917591704335199962016-12-31T18:22:25.973-05:002016-12-31T18:22:25.973-05:00I'm an entropy driven industry creation physic...I'm an entropy driven industry creation physicist, Tom, from the initial first ideaation and conception, demonstration through research and development, into prototyping, manufacturing and production, and then lifecycle through recycling and disposal, including cleansing up all the messes created by all that entropy. So as physicist I understand that intelligence and decision making control entropy production. Sure, radiosondes win on exergy, but that's not how I measure quality or entropy. Ask Toshiba what they think of exergy right now. And run this text through your crank generator. Remember, I'm not the axion guy in addition to all those other guys, the infamous we, us and nobody.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-19592965417664248562016-12-31T17:50:31.274-05:002016-12-31T17:50:31.274-05:008c, you clearly don't understand physics (chec...8c, you clearly don't understand physics (check fuel density and CO2 emitted per joule generated), or you would be offering at least faint praise for coal.<br /><br />You don't seem to understand logic or the English language either.<br /><br />One wonders what it is that you do understand?Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12747117922597525042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-21530918019353068392016-12-31T15:57:46.089-05:002016-12-31T15:57:46.089-05:00And of course, it's middle class Americans who...<i>And of course, it's middle class Americans who should decide how much refrigeration is enough for them.</i><br /><br />Oh the subtle irony of a middle class anonymous libertarian American named TW who thinks he too should decide where Africans get their energy and how they should gain their god given and god guaranteed wealth, when the free market is there to decide those things for them.<br /><br />I think that's called cognitive dissonance. All I care to do is make sure they are comfortable and well fed, as they should be. With physics. That physics clearly points to energy sources other than coal, and the free markets have clearly spoken on that point as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-52412835922119834082016-12-31T14:42:59.246-05:002016-12-31T14:42:59.246-05:00TW
China lifted 500 million people out of poverty...TW<br /><br /><i>China lifted 500 million people out of poverty by building a new coal plant every week or so. China is where the real action lifting people out of poverty has had success.</i><br /><br />You are peddling coal industry lies. This is the truth:<br /><br /><i>In China between 1981 and 2004, the number of people living on less than $1 per day declined by 500 million. Two thirds of this progress occurred between 1981 and 1987, prior to China’s industrialisation and large-scale expansion in coal power.</i><br /><br />Source: <a href="https://www.odi.org/publications/10589-beyond-coal-scaling-clean-energy-fight-global-poverty" rel="nofollow">Overseas Development Institute: Beyond Coal</a><br /><br />The heavy lifting was done by agricultural reform, not by coal. Are you aware that you have been duped?BBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687930416706386215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-33528693382373249882016-12-31T14:23:34.210-05:002016-12-31T14:23:34.210-05:00TW
Coal plant isn't built to be used for ten ...TW<br /><br />Coal plant isn't built to be used for ten years. It is built to be used for forty years. So a large build-out of coal plant in developing countries means ~40 years of commitment to coal. Now *that* will most certainly exacerbate respiratory disease mortality in the short term and climate impacts in the longer term. So it is clearly a bad idea and one to avoid. <br /><br />Other points about the lack of infrastructure (transmission grid) and / or the extreme difficulty in protecting and preserving it are also highly relevant when considering the advisability of new coal in developing countries. <br /><br />When considered objectively, it is not a good strategy if one has the optimised welfare of the current and future population as a primary goal. BBDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10687930416706386215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-62839282837105940192016-12-31T14:08:35.170-05:002016-12-31T14:08:35.170-05:00BJ: What didn't I read? What is your source ...BJ: What didn't I read? What is your source that fossil burning for 10 years will guarantee that 500 million people will end up back in poverty?<br /><br />My favorite, revealing comment upthread is how people in deep poverty should have enough refrigeration for their medicines but not for food. And of course, it's middle class Americans who should decide how much refrigeration is enough for them. <br /><br />Still no one countering my central argument, that reliability is not a reason to choose solar over fossil. TWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15908079545227158821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-90841304574078307972016-12-31T11:58:09.280-05:002016-12-31T11:58:09.280-05:00"BJ: China lifted 500 million people out of p..."<i>BJ: China lifted 500 million people out of poverty by building a new coal plant every week or so. China is where the real action lifting people out of poverty has had success. To quote our host, keep up. </i>"<br /><br />TW, you appear to have a reading difficulty.<br /><br />Fossil fuel use continued at this rate for more than a decade or two (and quite possibly not even that long) will guarantee that many more than 500 million people will eventually end up back in poverty, or worse.<br /><br />To quote our host, keep up.Bernard J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16299073166371273808noreply@blogger.com