tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post1566150359440243200..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Dano on Bees - Lack of SameEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-25578066156498916462013-08-31T21:29:23.993-04:002013-08-31T21:29:23.993-04:00I'm dredging up from my undergrad transect day...I'm dredging up from my undergrad transect days now, but there are quite a few reasons why old unpaved roads host different communities compared to their shoulders. Compaction, as has been mentioned above, is one and the loss of carbon from biological sources is most certainly another.<br /><br />When the roads are originally cut the surface soil horizons may be removed (or replaced with anther base) which can have a profound effect on subsequent recolonisation. Whilst the road is in use the exposure of the bare substrate to the elements can result in different chemical and physical weathering profiles compared with the intact soils around it. In particular leaching of soluble compound from the soil may be significant, and all the more so if there are no roots and /or worms to transport any back to the surface from lower horizons. A long-used road's soil profile may even change as a result of chemicals deposited by the traffic using it.<br /><br />These changes can persist for many centuries (and even millenia) after the last human use of such structures, and it's a boon to archaelologists who use geophysics to visualise historic disturbances even in the absence of more substantial artefacts.<br /><br /><br />Bernard J.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-1800387591402575462013-08-31T16:05:50.133-04:002013-08-31T16:05:50.133-04:00Hank Roberts: "The old road grades had maybe ...Hank Roberts: "<i>The old road grades had maybe a tenth the total microorganisms. That's after about 70 years of being left alone to go back to nature.</i>"<br /><br />David B. Benson: "<i>I am quite sure that compaction is a big factor in the change of the microbiology of the old roads. But it is also the case that the best topsoil was scraped off whilst making the skid roads.</i>"<br /><br />A couple of ideas:<br /><br />1) If the topsoil was scraped off the skid roads, how much organic matter is left to drive microbial productivity? <br /><br />2) Aside from reduced supply of fixed carbon, there's the loss of living plants with their mycorrhizal symbionts.<br /><br />Some testable hypotheses there, maybe?Mal Adaptedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06123525780458234978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-67316823638635031142013-08-31T11:23:56.943-04:002013-08-31T11:23:56.943-04:00o An old GF of mine worked for the Forest Service ...o An old GF of mine worked for the Forest Service one summer as a field biologist. She did a little paper on plant regeneration on old logging roads. Her findings were interestingly similiar to what I talk about in urban ecology - we scrape and compact and it takes decades to recover - a paper out of Utah recently says it takess 50-70 years in cities for soil to recover and start acting like it did before.<br /><br />o Don't know what happened with the link, here is the sentence:<br /><br />Some researchers in the US still <a href="http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/Potential_Side_Effects_of_EAB_Insecticides_FAQ.pdf" rel="nofollow">aren’t convinced</a> of the relationship, however. <br /><br />Might have been a space in there that threw off the tag.<br /><br />o I smell soil as well - yesterday working on a project with a couple contractors, one asserted the soil was saturated for a long time - I picked it up and smelled it and it smelled rich and healthy. That's one of the first things we were taught in soil science.<br /><br />:o)<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />DDanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03709762632849004871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-56064525227045555072013-08-29T00:33:12.928-04:002013-08-29T00:33:12.928-04:00Having for awhile owned and managed a 40 acre wood...Having for awhile owned and managed a 40 acre woodlot I am quite sure that compaction is a big factor in the change of the microbiology of the old roads. But it is also the case that the best topsoil was scraped off whilst making the skid roads. All that would grow on mine were volunteer Ponderosa pines. Those would start because there was no grass. The Douglas fir (vastly preferable) refused to cooperate.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-50010800518823097842013-08-28T06:47:35.934-04:002013-08-28T06:47:35.934-04:00Hank, I'd suggest compaction is a big factor. ...Hank, I'd suggest compaction is a big factor. The Wilderness experiments at Rothamsted indicate arable areas that are left to revegetate naturally have soils much higher in micro-organisms than the adjacent arable fields a(see e.g. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2389.2010.01339.x/full ). Though historic soil treatments that alter the chemistry of the soil (such as pH) can have far-reaching consequences on the botanical makeup of the resulting woodland (see e.g. http://www.rothamsted.ac.uk/resources/LongTermExperiments.pdf).<br /><br />As regards the OP, of course we should do nothing to our agricultural ecosystems for fear of the consequences, though how we then go on to feed everyone I don't know...<br /><br />http://www.martinsclass.com/aphug/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/World_production_of_coarse_grain_1961-2004.png<br /><br /><br />AnonySpilopsyllaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-35498928140083780752013-08-28T06:02:50.026-04:002013-08-28T06:02:50.026-04:00The long-term microbiology of soils is of particul...The long-term microbiology of soils is of particular interest to us geoarchaelogists. <br /><br />I teach my students to smell soils, as they excavate, to get an idea of the nature and degree of soil biological activity and of any modern contamination. Soil fungal activity is particularly relevant to the survival of archaeological strata - and nasally identifiable.<br /><br />Just like a fine wine a soil has a "nose" which can be recognised by those who sniff them long, hard and often enough. Presumably Bunnies develop such skills too - given all those hours spent running around dark tunnels underground.<br /><br />My kids use to think I'm mad. Now they accept this to be true but understand that it is an honourable form of madness shared with field scientists everywhere. And that it pays for their extravagent lifestyles (ha!).<br /><br />Some knowledge you can't get online and deliver in Tablet form.<br /><br />Universities - Wake up and smell the podsols! Brynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-6240553184603240212013-08-28T00:05:08.309-04:002013-08-28T00:05:08.309-04:00Hell, you can take a course in tasting dirtHell, you can take a course in <a href="http://www.ediblegeography.com/sweet-and-sour-soils/" rel="nofollow">tasting dirt</a>EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-88552856976747169482013-08-27T21:02:37.921-04:002013-08-27T21:02:37.921-04:00"
When I was a youngster, farmers and the occ..."<i><br />When I was a youngster, farmers and the occasional field biologist would taste the dirt</i>'<br /><br />Adds a whole new dimension to the term <i>terroir</i>:<br /><br />Next at The French Laundry, a $150 tasting menu of Napa Valley vineyard soils, with vintage <i>loma preta</i> for dessert.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-77455175439139225982013-08-27T20:29:20.649-04:002013-08-27T20:29:20.649-04:00> know why the microbiology is
> still so d...> know why the microbiology is <br />> still so different?<br /><br />Nope, no idea at all. That's one long-ago observation on one site. <br /><br />Look at Elaine Ingham's work and that of NRCS and some of the ag groups -- the area's changing fast as we become able to use PCR probes to find out what's living where.<br /><br />Look at all the people working on this stuff: http://www.academia.edu/People/Environmental_microbiologyHank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-4097834593589101492013-08-27T18:36:29.454-04:002013-08-27T18:36:29.454-04:00Hank Roberts,
Do you and/or the soil labs know wh...Hank Roberts,<br /><br />Do you and/or the soil labs know why the microbiology is still so different? Compaction seems likely, as the roads are still visible. Anything else? Sandrahttp://www.canwin.org.aunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-81460345174099053472013-08-27T13:32:00.101-04:002013-08-27T13:32:00.101-04:00The link behind "Some researchers in the US s...The link behind "Some researchers in the US still aren’t convinced" is broken<br />Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-18258803080855576842013-08-27T13:26:34.066-04:002013-08-27T13:26:34.066-04:00http://elaineingham.com/
When I started my little...http://elaineingham.com/<br /><br />When I started my little hobby restoration project (40 acres after a severe forest fire, on my favorite hang gliding mountain), I sent soil samples to Dr. Ingham's lab just to get some rough idea of microbiology. The most interesting result was from long abandoned logging grade roads across the site from probably the 1920s. Aside from the change in slope they looked just about the same as the hillside above and below. Same bunchgrasses and post-fire manzanita growing; same remaining topsoil after the fire (about 2/3 of an inch, at most; most of the topsil had burned off much of the site).<br /><br />The old road grades had maybe a tenth the total microorganisms. That's after about 70 years of being left alone to go back to nature.<br /><br />When I was a youngster, farmers and the occasional field biologist would taste the dirt to get some idea how well it was doing. I doubt anybody does that nowadays.Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-12768454369947568432013-08-27T12:52:50.774-04:002013-08-27T12:52:50.774-04:00A few years back I purchased this book
http://www...A few years back I purchased this book<br /><br />http://www.aspringwithoutbees.com/<br /><br />and passed it on to local bee-keepers from whom I purchase my honey.<br /><br />The book tells an alarming story and the web site<br /><br /> http://planbeecentral.wordpress.com/<br /><br />has updated information which hits some of the buttons in the article.<br /><br />Another book that I read and passed on is 'A World Without Bees' by Alison Benjamin & Brian McCallum.<br /><br />Tony Juniper in his recent book 'What Has Nature Ever Done For Us?: How Money Really Does Grow On Trees' also touches on pollinators and bees providing a wider context.<br /><br />So in short Fixed Carbon, yes you should be worried when 'you can't put food on your family'.<br /><br />Lionel Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-74756103628638363802013-08-27T10:16:01.617-04:002013-08-27T10:16:01.617-04:00Alarmist bunny, you are. Love, Whatmeworry.Alarmist bunny, you are. Love, Whatmeworry.Fixed Carbonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06321707907871138659noreply@blogger.com