tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post1321020234909110533..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: I am the object of people power at Change.org (all four of them)EliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-11798570415879143502014-01-06T23:30:36.410-05:002014-01-06T23:30:36.410-05:00weird what bothers people, weird what doesn't....weird what bothers people, weird what doesn't.<br /><br />"Due to the so-called “Halliburton loophole,” the oil and gas industry is exempt from important requirements under the federal Safe Drinking Water Act, and states have been slow to fill the regulatory gap."<br />http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2013/12/20/hormone-disrupting-chemicals-linked-to-fracking-found-in-colorado-river/Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-22064111106894049042014-01-03T17:32:28.282-05:002014-01-03T17:32:28.282-05:00Smokers got away with inflicting their dirty, unhe...Smokers got away with inflicting their dirty, unhealthy habit on the rest of us for a long, long time, publicly encouraged to by prominent members of society, with no concern what so ever about non-smokers. No wonder they came to feel entitled to do so.<br /><br />But that time is over. Done.<br />Deal with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-37265911255108175392014-01-03T15:17:54.204-05:002014-01-03T15:17:54.204-05:00Anonymous said:"Would that be the same brilli...Anonymous said:"Would that be the same brilliance [James Hansen] that predicted more "Super El Ninos" after the 97-98 event?"<br /><br />James Annan, at :http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/2009/02/hansens-el-nino-forecast-reprised.html :"So, what can we conclude from this?<br /><br />Well, Hansen clearly went out a little on a limb, at a time when established forecasters were more circumspect. He got it right, with events turning out absolutely in line with his prediction. I'm not sure how Roger justifies his "something for everyone" which is clearly intended as a jibe at Hansen for over-egging things, as the prediction of a super El Nino was only ever presented as a reasonable possibility, not a high probability event. As I've said before, I do believe that scientists bear responsibility when their words and research are predictably misunderstood as a result of them presenting their results in a misleading manner. I don't think this is one of those occasions. His words were admirably clear (admittedly not numerically quantitative)."<br /><br />Hmm, anon vs. Annan, who to believe? Such a non-dilemma.<br /><br />Rib Smokin' bunny<br /><br />Bonus, anonymous said:"Hansen is a huckster that made a career as a hysteric." A Pielke, quoted by Annan:"If he is proven right with this forecast, contrary to all of the models and statistics, then his credibility will rise far beyond its already stratospheric levels."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-31431998519092549022014-01-03T14:50:29.466-05:002014-01-03T14:50:29.466-05:00I did not take "blue" as meaning anythin...I did not take "blue" as meaning anything political. It just made me think of the smoking-induced pulmonary disorder COPD, which is subdivided into "blue bloaters" and "pink puffers". I thought Seitz most likely was a blue bloater (because better dead than red or even light red, eh?)<br /><br />Revision to my last post to Seitz: You may smoke in church if it is a recognized ritual in the religion. Perhaps you could seek out church services where this is the case. (I'm feeling helpful today, inbetween cancer cases.)Daniel Wirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-36216784093150669532014-01-03T14:46:04.639-05:002014-01-03T14:46:04.639-05:00oh, and Hank, if you're still around, hot dam&...oh, and Hank, if you're still around, hot dam', thanks. Blake yet!Susan Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16935228911713362040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-73465411727104621452014-01-03T14:40:42.273-05:002014-01-03T14:40:42.273-05:00Don't have time for all the wonderful wordplay...Don't have time for all the wonderful wordplay and nuance, but must apologize for using the word blue in my comment about Russell, who seems quite sound to me. As soon as I babbled it into pixels I realized would be misconstrued as a political symbol. I was using it in a much older sense, meaning sound and solid in the world of reality; from which we all benefit. Like this:<br /><br />http://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2013/12/when-it-comes-to-intersection-of-drug.html<br /><br />I leave the rest of it all to you all; friends with cigarettes are not the same as friends with benefits, and it's complicated. And please, don't get started deconstructing "friend". If I choose to regard someone as a "friend" who's to gainsay me? We don't have to agree on all points, or even most of them, to admire complexity.<br /><br />Susan Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16935228911713362040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-54061228273434479942014-01-03T14:34:45.580-05:002014-01-03T14:34:45.580-05:00Hard to arrage people upwind and downwind of smoke...Hard to arrage people upwind and downwind of smokers on a crowded bus. <br /><br />My position is not a "diatribe against the civil liberty" (Seitz creates another strawman). I repeat: like I've said several times, you and other like-minded people aare perfectly free to kill yourselves, as long as you do not harm the public health and you pay all the external costs. Smoking on a public bus and causing status asthmaticus in a child is not a civil liberty.<br /><br />Regarding "just where on private property, in the New Model Big Apple smokers are free to congregate indoors to enjoy food and drink while providing employment for other smokers who serve them". I don't know and I don't care. That is for you to figure out and arrange. I repeat: you and other like-minded people are perfectly free to kill yourselves, as long as you do not harm the public health and youi pay all the external costs. So arrange it, buckwheat.<br /><br />Church candles and insense do not cause millions of deaths per year. And no, you may not smoke in church.<br /><br />Your essay "A War Against Fire" is pathetically flawed.Daniel Wirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-85832826286542528212014-01-03T14:34:28.674-05:002014-01-03T14:34:28.674-05:00"I don't agree with everything that Hanse..."I don't agree with everything that Hansen says... This does detract from his brillance in climate science."<br /><br />Would that be the same brilliance that predicted more "Super El Ninos" after the 97-98 event?<br /><br />Or the brilliant biologist Hansen that shamelessly intimated the extinction of "half of all speices"?<br /><br />Or the brilliant economist Hansen that noted the abundance of "Death Trains".<br /><br />Hansen is a huckster that made a career as a hysteric. ( And at least a cool quarter $million from John Kerry).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-46031460516380186582014-01-03T14:07:21.504-05:002014-01-03T14:07:21.504-05:00For the first four centuries, smoking, non-smokers...For the first four centuries, smoking, non-smokers and smelly Manhattanites coexisted civilly and copacetically by arranging themselves upwind and downwind of each other as taste dictated. <br /><br />Could Dan interrupt his diatribe against the civil liberty long enough to advise us just <i>where</i> on private property, in the New Model Big Apple smokers are free to congregate indoors to enjoy food and drink while providing employment for other smokers who serve them? <br /><br />And how long he expects absolutist proponents of the precautionary principle to leave unregulated church candles incense and whatever else gives them the vapors ? <br /><br />The title <i> A War Against Fire </i> was chosed because one is manifestly in progress.<br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-44932196677151143972014-01-03T14:04:04.004-05:002014-01-03T14:04:04.004-05:00Strawman Seitz creates another strawman.
I am no ...Strawman Seitz creates another strawman.<br /><br />I am no liberal. I have already said that I don't agree with everything that Hansen says (specifically, I think his advocacy for nuclear power is misguided). This does detract from his brillance in climate science.<br /><br />The nuclear power industry would collapse in a heartbeat without government subsidies. Just one example: no insurance company will insure them. And does Seitz support taxpayer money going to the fossil fuel industry? <br /><br />The destruction of the biosphere is a bipartisan phenomenon. <br /><br />I don't want to subsidize the external costs of smokers any more than I want the "liberal left" in my wallet. I don't know why SS thinks I would not agree with Hansen on this point. (Except that Seitz chronically sows doubt and confused ideation.)<br /><br />The role of government is properly limited to protecting the commons. Seitz creates another strawman when he tries to set me up as a supporter of big government.Daniel Wirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-50644923016530669702014-01-03T13:26:12.576-05:002014-01-03T13:26:12.576-05:00Will Daniel Wirt's next diatribe be directed a...Will Daniel Wirt's next diatribe be directed against the fellow who wrote of carbon policy?: <br /><br /><i>"We must demand that the liberal left keep their hands off of our wallets. Not one dime of the carbon fee should be used to make the government bigger. One hundred percent of the money must go to the public.<br /><br />Nor should any of this money be used for subsidizing research on specific government-selected industries.<br />The government is not competent to choose the best technologies—let them all compete." </i><br /><br />Tune in to Jim Hansen's blog for the next exciting episode !<br /><br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-62196752749847208882014-01-03T12:44:45.845-05:002014-01-03T12:44:45.845-05:00"Both of our daughters have great teeth, no c..."Both of our daughters have great teeth, no cavities ever. I can't make the same boast about my own teeth."<br /><br />Flouride is a big benefit.<br /><br />But you can also blame your mom:<br /><br />http://www.deltadentalid.com/oral_health_topics.aspx?mode=Bacteria<br /><br />EuniceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-83175434308919503422014-01-03T09:06:06.084-05:002014-01-03T09:06:06.084-05:00Strawman Seitz (SS),
No, it means you can't s...Strawman Seitz (SS),<br /><br />No, it means you can't smoke on the bus. You have equal access to public transportation, including sitting where you want, but you can't smoke on the bus. Have you ever seen a child in status asthmaticus, Seitz?<br /><br />Same for park benches.<br /><br />And because I advocate reasonable regulation of smoking/tobacco/nicotine, SS erects a ridiculous strawman, implying that I must favor execution by denial of shelter from the elements. No, your ability and opportunity to step into a public building to prevent hypothermia or hyperthermia is totally unrelated to whether you smoke or not. But you may not smoke in public buildings.<br /><br />And adding yet another strawman. Show me where I have advocated "...outlaw(ing) the employment of smokers by smokers to serve smokers..." Like I've said several times, you and other like-minded people are perfectly free to kill yourselves, as long as you do not harm the public health and you pay all the external costs.<br /><br />Do you realize how intellectually bankrupt your arguments are? That is a rhetorical question...<br /><br />Bloomberg? He's toast. It's deBlasio. Bring your knowledge " up to the beginning of the century" Seitz.<br /><br />If I followed SS's example, I would ask him: are you in denial about your smoking on the bus as the proximate cause of death in a child whose asthma is triggered, resulting in a severe attack and status asthmaticus, with the immediate cause of death being respiratory failure? Read up, Seitz.<br /><br />Finally, people like Seitz have the ultimate temerity to raise concerns about the commons. When the unfettered capitalism and free market fundamentalism that is the core of their rigid political dogma is literally destroying the biosphere. This is the proximate cause of their motivation to deny good science or sow doubt, especially for AGW science.<br /><br />Yes, Seitz, you are the very MODel of a. MODern Major General.Daniel Wirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-58391203187871435272014-01-03T03:51:57.735-05:002014-01-03T03:51:57.735-05:00Does that mean we can have the back of the bus bac...<br /><br />Does that mean we can have the back of the bus back, and separate but equal park benches ?<br /><br />If you are in denial about denial of shelter from the elements being one of Rome's crueler forms of execution you might benefit from a 12-step program for recovering totalitarians.<br /><br />Add denial of freedom of congregation and association, and outlaw the employment of smokers by smokers to serve smokers, and you could become Mayor Bloomberg's <i>beau ideal</i> of a dinner guest. <br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-4100399725527189622014-01-03T02:03:37.464-05:002014-01-03T02:03:37.464-05:00Back to fluoride:
Back in 2000, the local (Las Veg...Back to fluoride:<br />Back in 2000, the local (Las Vegas metro area) water district started fluoridating the drinking water. Some of the strongest supporters of fluoridation were dentists, who saw the tooth decay of children, especially children in poverty. <br /><br />The authorities started fluoridating the water, and 6 months later held a vote on whether to stop fluoridating. A "no" vote meant don't stop fluoridating, while a "yes" vote meant stop fluoridating. <br />This was a wise tactic: the opponents of fluoridating were mostly cranks, who depended on inducing confusion. When voters are confused or uncertain, they often vote "no". In this case the no vote won, and our water stayed fluoridated. <br /><br />Before the fluoridation began in 2000, we gave our two daughters fluoride drops to help protect their teeth. Both of our daughters have great teeth, no cavities ever. I can't make the same boast about my own teeth. <br /><br /> Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575837647825433144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-65272059724224511222014-01-03T02:01:00.176-05:002014-01-03T02:01:00.176-05:00Why do you keep on erecting strawmen, Seitz? Did ...Why do you keep on erecting strawmen, Seitz? Did I advocate a total ban on outdoor consumption? No, I advocate reasonable regulation to protect public health. (By the way, you say outdoor consumption banned in 200 communities, but what is the denominator?)<br /><br />Your right to smoke ends at the lungs of those who don't want to breathe your smoke.<br /><br />Your right to smoke end at the wallets of those who don't want to pay for your smoke-induced diseases (talk about an attack on property...).<br /><br />Your right to smoke ends at policies necessary to protect children.<br /><br />Comparing reasonable regulation of smoking to the abuses of civil liberties that sparked the civil rights movement in the US? That's a reach...<br /><br />Otherwise, puff away, puff away. You're at liberty to kill yourself, but no one else.Daniel Wirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-82895671967271215662014-01-03T00:58:17.352-05:002014-01-03T00:58:17.352-05:00I think he views reasonable regulation as "pr... I think he views reasonable regulation as "prohibition"<br /><br /><br /><br /> Denying minorities ancient rights to access to the commons is a subject old as the history of injustice, and Wirt has made clear which side he has chosen.<br /><br />At last count self appointed tobacco prohibitionists have imposed not just draconian indoor restrictions, but total bans on outdoor consumption of tobacco in some 200 communities.<br /><br />I commend to all who cherish the achievements of of earlier civil rights movements Jacob Sullum's astute and continuing coverage of this escalating attack on liberty , property, and the life of the mind.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-51804154797589065572014-01-03T00:46:00.237-05:002014-01-03T00:46:00.237-05:00Per Hank Roberts :
http://www.pnas.org/content/e...<br />Per Hank Roberts : <br />http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/12/27/1314848111<br /><br />"Spiders are deterred by this nicotine-rich halitosis."<br /><br />Seitz should be totally spider-proof. Those brown recluses cause nasty necrotizing wounds.<br /><br />Regarding the number of times I've reminded Seitz about Richard Doll's work linking lung cancer with smoking --- 24 is it, Seitz? That's only 4 more than in one pack of cigarettes...Daniel Wirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-46669761033303940682014-01-03T00:28:08.719-05:002014-01-03T00:28:08.719-05:00'Dr Seitz - I have never written a single word...'Dr Seitz - I have never written a single word concerning Fred Seitz.'<br /><br />Quite right- my apoogies for eliding your remarks with Wirt's less temperate ones it is hard to keep 100 comments on two posts straight THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-64171829744824266282014-01-03T00:07:51.866-05:002014-01-03T00:07:51.866-05:00Seitz burbled as he came: "They earlier note...Seitz burbled as he came: "They earlier noted Fred Seitz refusal to devote Reynold's money to smoking research, but aping Oreskes ignore the mere fact that as a solid state physicist he had nothing to contribute to tobacco research. As an octagenarian committee figurehead, he authored none and never testified on Reynold's behalf."<br /><br />Totally irrelevant. What is relevant is whether he was in a position of authority to "contribute" to how the money was spent or was NOT spent. For an old man, Seitz is pretty good at gymnastics.<br /><br />And here is another back flip: "...consider Doll's deplorable career as an expert witness as a role model for a superannuated Department of Transportation Chief Scientist named Fred Singer."<br /><br />I'm impressed with how studiously and assiduously Seitz avoids the ONLY point I have made about Richard Doll, and the only point that is relevant to smoking- lung cancer: Richard Doll's seminal work linking smoking with lung cancer, published in 1950 in the British Medical Journal; you know, 30 years before Seitz became addicted to nicotine... You ignore the bull elephant in the room, but everyone else sees it...<br /><br />By the way, with regard to a previous comment, I have read some, not all of Seitz's stuff. What I've read isn't pretty. Including the Saturation Fallacy in that MOD piece, "A War Against Fire".<br /><br />And regarding drug regulation. Based on what Seitz has written here, I think he views reasonable regulation as "prohibition". Recently Colorado has legalized marihuana for "general use". The whole chain is pretty tightly regulated, because they want to keep it out of the hands of kids. (Even though marihuana is far less dangerous for children than nicotine.). Does Colorado's regulation of marihuana infringe on anyones freedom? Is liberty compromised because people can't make more money by actively marketing to kids?Daniel Wirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-52692775705294918752014-01-02T23:43:39.049-05:002014-01-02T23:43:39.049-05:00Dr Seitz - I have never written a single word conc...Dr Seitz - I have never written a single word concerning Fred Seitz.Kevin O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06692943768484857724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-2310167161119166362014-01-02T23:13:59.157-05:002014-01-02T23:13:59.157-05:00Like his cousin, Seitz is a merchant of doubt rega... Like his cousin, Seitz is a merchant of doubt regarding tobacco and nicotine,<br /><br /><br />O'Niel & Wirt's invective to evidence ratio has flatlined entirely. They earlier noted Fred Seitz refusal to devote Reynold's money to smoking research, but aping Oreskes ignore the mere fact that as a solid state physicist he had nothing to contribute to tobacco research. As an octagenarian committee figurehead, he authored none and never testified on Reynold's behalf. <br /><br />Still, I doubt they will halt in mid-Gish Gallop to consider Doll's deplorable career as an expert witness as a role model for a superannuated Department of Transportation Chief Scientist named Fred Singer.<br /><br /><br /><br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-47450205854142822082014-01-02T22:27:01.458-05:002014-01-02T22:27:01.458-05:00Dr Seitz *is* a merchant of doubt spreading the fa...Dr Seitz *is* a merchant of doubt spreading the false equivalence meme. Despite censorship of scientists by every Republican administration at least as far back as Reagan, you never see him mention *that* fact. <br /><br />Indeed, even though he used Jerry Mahlman as one of his sources for a 1990 article (A War Against Fire) he somehow never found it worthwhile to mention that the leading climate scientists were having their congressional testimony coerced and/or edited by the Republican administration. This is especially telling because the public revelation of these tactics was being revealed during Seitz's research for 'A War Against Fire.'<br /><br /><br />Kevin O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06692943768484857724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-8272148999470073352014-01-02T21:48:31.789-05:002014-01-02T21:48:31.789-05:00"My object all sublime
I shall achieve in tim..."My object all sublime<br />I shall achieve in time ---<br />To let the punishment fit the crime ---<br />The punishment fit the crime..."<br /><br />Yes, I think Seitz is truly blue (as in blue bloater). Or are you a pink puffer?<br /><br />And quite red in tooth and claw when he makes light of concern about hooking children.<br /><br />Too bad Seitz didn't invoke Richard Doll 33 years ago before he hooked himself on nictotine.<br /><br />I've spent a good part of my professional career doing my part to take care of people made very sick indeed by tobacco. The pathology and suffering is extraordinary. In my view, the best way to reduce harm overall is to make all drugs legal and variably regulated and taxed according to the characteristics of the particular drug in question, with research emphasis on public health education and behavior modification. Like his cousin, Seitz is a merchant of doubt regarding tobacco and nicotine, an apologist, apparently in the service of a bankrupt political ideology. An ideology where market fundamentalism reigns and any attempt to regulate or tax is viewed as an abridgement of freedom and liberty. Oreskes pegged him.Daniel Wirtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-17206978075566142522014-01-02T19:41:02.946-05:002014-01-02T19:41:02.946-05:00What Susan said. And Russell said. And Blake: &...What Susan said. And Russell said. And Blake: "Opposition is true friendship."Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.com