tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post7355294954441024973..comments2024-03-18T03:27:18.777-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Auditing Assessing Climate ChangeEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-23556858053369122182010-10-14T13:21:03.903-04:002010-10-14T13:21:03.903-04:00A scythe. Well, then maybe we can fit in the 19six...A scythe. Well, then maybe we can fit in the 19sixties and -seventies into the short sideways bend between the stick and the sharp :) A model succes at last!cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-618620173578285632010-10-14T08:51:26.463-04:002010-10-14T08:51:26.463-04:00Ya know, Carmen S., sweetie, There are a couple of...Ya know, Carmen S., sweetie, There are a couple of dozen independent reconstructions, many using different proxies, and they all show pretty much the same trends. In fact, as Hank Robert's has pointed out, the main criticism one could raise against the original hockey stick is that maybe it looked more like a scythe. Is that really the message you want out there?a_ray_in_dilbert_spacenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-53373199971636977562010-10-13T18:18:59.802-04:002010-10-13T18:18:59.802-04:00The outcome from all of this will be that Bradley ...The outcome from all of this will be that Bradley looks as big a toss as Mann, with the Hockey stick taking yet another public beating. <br /><br />I thought Scientists were supposed to be bright.Carmen Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-1226662463126106842010-10-12T19:11:44.971-04:002010-10-12T19:11:44.971-04:00No, Eli is a RabettNo, Eli is a RabettEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-92231951456040185342010-10-12T18:22:10.772-04:002010-10-12T18:22:10.772-04:00You are a moronYou are a moronAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-60384525860535127212010-10-11T18:45:06.207-04:002010-10-11T18:45:06.207-04:00@ 70's MSU frosh:
Dude...how about answering ...@ 70's MSU frosh:<br /><br />Dude...how about answering my questions? Have you tried listening...and thinking...at the same time? :-)Former Skepticnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-26010030112656839082010-10-11T18:07:33.032-04:002010-10-11T18:07:33.032-04:00In the days there were rather fewer of us, we all ...In the days there were rather fewer of us, we all knew what honest writing was and so what plagarism was. With more of us, with ever higher expectations for reseach writings and with some rather stinky apples being exposed, institutions have had to go to the trouble of providing formal guidelines regarding plagarism and other forms of (dishonest) misconduct.<br /><br />[word verification: "deader"]David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-11502807687677524352010-10-11T14:51:54.386-04:002010-10-11T14:51:54.386-04:00Donald Rapp wrote:
....It may seem strange and imp...Donald Rapp wrote:<br />....It may seem strange and impossible to you but I can assimilate a new field in a couple of years, read hundreds of papers and dozens of books, and pull together a synoptic view of the whole field – something that no climate specialist has yet done to any degree of success....<br />http://deepclimate.org/2009/12/17/wegman-report-revisited/<br /><br />Such irony, coming from someone who cited Gerlich and Tscheuschner as peer-reviewed when it wasn't.<br />http://deepclimate.org/2010/01/07/donald-rapp-more-divergence-problems/<br /><br />Total cRappAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-15482407902399886822010-10-11T14:10:32.327-04:002010-10-11T14:10:32.327-04:00Eli, for the sake of people dropping in to the dis...Eli, for the sake of people dropping in to the discussion, I suggest adding a disclaimer above the Wegman excerpt, noting that the quotations you give do not represent the scientific consensus, either at the time the Wegman Report was written or now. Casual readers might assume that you were endorsing Wegman et al.'s summary rather than just quoting them for comparison with Rapp. As DC has noted, the notion that tree ring width varies with "carbon dioxide in the atmosphere" was novel to the Wegman Report and not present in Bradley. No point in inadvertently sponsoring another zombie meme.<br /><br />@n-g: "[Rapp] did everyone a service by improving the grammar"---bear in mind that technical book publishers have copy editors who smooth out the grammar of submitted manuscripts. The final wording is always at least a bit different from what the author originally submitted.Ted Kirkpatricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-60081450560557776652010-10-11T13:56:12.491-04:002010-10-11T13:56:12.491-04:00A. Cheers, I do not believe in that NWO. Even Euro...A. Cheers, I do not believe in that NWO. Even Europe is not getting ordered, let alone Africa, South-America, Asia; whereas there is no order to be seen across the world as a whole. In reality rather Cold War II has emerged, US - China. <br /><br />As a parting remark to this discussion, which I think is inapproriate here, let me put this statement: the sun goes down in the west. But the twilight will still take a length of time. Neither do I know what will be next.cRR Kampenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07571285063752477448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-64304236628317423562010-10-11T13:21:27.777-04:002010-10-11T13:21:27.777-04:00RR Kampen, NL., In the real world, a rational man ...RR Kampen, NL., In the real world, a rational man needs to set priorities for himself. We have all three legs of the well known Chinese curse bearing their fruit today. CO2 is not the real threat; it is the system & others, who have been revealed to have a world-wide agenda. They want a New World Order. This is the pressing, tipping point. My guess is our lives will be dramatically different in just months not years. As they print money, our stored labor becomes worthless... This too is a pressing issue. I did not choose them. We are here... I do not know the outcome. Anyone....?<br /><br />CheersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-51682139060660536452010-10-11T13:04:00.750-04:002010-10-11T13:04:00.750-04:00Former Skeptic, Why would anyone lie about a truth...Former Skeptic, Why would anyone lie about a truth. He is human, just like you & I... it was his pride, speaking for him. Don't think so much... Listen more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-74985892542120581932010-10-11T12:34:44.326-04:002010-10-11T12:34:44.326-04:00@ 70's MSU frosh:
Maybe...justttttttttt maybe...@ 70's MSU frosh:<br /><br />Maybe...justttttttttt maybe....and this is assuming you are telling the truth (as you don't want to give names)...your econs prof is a single black sheep? Maybe - and tell the truth now - if you'd smoked less hash and watched fewer Mafia flicks you'd know that not all of academia = one single - maybe fictitious - cherry picked anecdote? And maybe - you fill us in now - you haven't seen current university guidelines on plagiarism and how Wegman's report is a clear cut, indefensible example of that?Former Skepticnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-77611278930561454382010-10-11T12:23:49.463-04:002010-10-11T12:23:49.463-04:00Anonymous Cheers, 'we do'?
I (not 'w...Anonymous Cheers, 'we do'? <br /><br />I (not 'we') responded to your phrase 'trace gas', because I was under the impression that you used a well-known denialist's quasi-argument as to the reality of AGW, this being the main subject matter of this blog. <br /><br />I agree with you on the matter of 'greed and pride'. I also agree with you on the people of this world adressing the dangers of freedom erosion, although perhaps the people are a little too free as they invade the sciences like the Inquisition used to do - but I submit it is that 'we' who might be responsible for the erosion. Freedom starts, ends and runs with 'I'. And 'you', of course.<br /><br />RR Kampen, NL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-25871258537883010792010-10-11T11:48:29.384-04:002010-10-11T11:48:29.384-04:00This is OT for me but I have to say: About all thi...This is OT for me but I have to say: About all this plagiarizin going on... When I first entered MSU as a freshman I took an Econ 101 class, which was taught by a highly regarded Prof. In his very first class, he told us that he had just received a grant from the Govt. to do a 'study' and that the very next step in his process, was to plagiarize large sections of the report. He was joking about the system... That was in 1970, my first class with this guy... you fill us in--- tell the truth now--- how common is it in academia; to borrow or whatever the word or words that you use to explain the situation? Not just when you have a bone to pick, 'how common', is plagiarizing to your knowledge, no names required:) You all seem to have been in the system for years. You know the answer... Omerta.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-7459482560729458762010-10-11T11:01:03.560-04:002010-10-11T11:01:03.560-04:00RR Kampen, NL
Please don't try drinking fifty...RR Kampen, NL<br /><br />Please don't try drinking fifty liters of water in one hour either, that too will kill you. What is your point; that we are unable to read the warning label? We need the little pictures because everyone is just too stupid? When was the last time you drank a bottle of Iodine? A bottle of Ozone? Sighosnide?<br /><br />You don't seem to comprehend, that a bigger threat faces us all. Right now. You don't see that the people of the world are going to address the issue of freedom, before we ever get around to COO. According to your science, we have at least until 2035:) Like they were saying on the TV "Remember November". What do you think that was all about. You are smart, and you still don't get it. We do. <br /><br />What, you worry?...<br /><br />CheersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-5851816720377976172010-10-11T10:58:04.919-04:002010-10-11T10:58:04.919-04:00Anonymous said...
"John Mashey seems to have...Anonymous said...<br /><br />"John Mashey seems to have some difficulty understanding in what constitutes plagiarism. In common parlance plagiarism involves using other’s work as if it is one’s own, and a necessary condition for this to be true is that the plagiariser does not acknowledge the source of materials he uses under his/her own name."<br /><br />Anonymous needs to look at some actual guidelines for plagiarism, not what he would like for the to be. http://science.widener.edu/svb/essay/plagiar.html says:<br /><br />"As a College student you are expected to have your own ideas. To read information and explain it in your words. If you complete an assignment by copying material, you are not showing that you understand something. Only that you can repeat what the textbook says. This does not show that you understand."<br /><br />See what I did Anonymous? I used quote marks. In a previous response I said the same thing in my own words.<br /><br />If you read the Wegman report, since it is not explained in their own words, how can you tell how much they really understand? Answer: you can't. This is crucially important, for this report was being touted as an statistical expert's "review". <br /><br />Someone Who Actually Grades Lab Reports and Checks for Plagiarism MouseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-22137415592388479872010-10-11T10:20:38.002-04:002010-10-11T10:20:38.002-04:00Anonymous Cheers, traces matter or try cyanide for...Anonymous Cheers, traces matter or try cyanide for a drink. Even in the ozone layer the concentration of ozone is at most 1/500 of CO2 in the troposphere and this is in much thinner air. But life on the planet is not possible without that wee bit of ozone.<br /><br />Ozone, by the way, is an extremely potent poison, at least as harmful as cynanide.<br /><br />RR Kampen, NL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-37366279813783450332010-10-11T10:07:10.222-04:002010-10-11T10:07:10.222-04:00It seems that a group of smart folks have not been...It seems that a group of smart folks have not been sitting around totally idol. They have been working the country for Green... How about, U2? <br /><br />"The aides identified by the Journal say they didn't profit by making trades based on any information gathered in the halls of Congress. Even if they had done so, it would be legal, because insider-trading laws don't apply to Congress.<br /><br />A few lawmakers proposed a bill that would prevent members and employees of Congress from trading securities based on nonpublic information they obtain. The legislation has languished since 2006."<br /><br />Is it time for action yet, are we reaching THE tipping point? You are worried about an invisible gas that is a building block of life on this world. Please tell us Eli, which is the more pressing threat? The trace gas that surrounds us or the greed and pride we harbor within ourselves? This would be a ethics problem for a scientist, feel free & spend some serious time, on your answer.<br /><br />CheersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-78969449488222591812010-10-11T07:35:12.489-04:002010-10-11T07:35:12.489-04:00John Mashey seems to have some difficulty understa...John Mashey seems to have some difficulty understanding in what constitutes plagiarism. In common parlance plagiarism involves using other’s work as if it is one’s own, and a necessary condition for this to be true is that the plagiariser does not acknowledge the source of materials he uses under his/her own name. <br /><br />Mashey has published a 250-page attack on the Wegman Report (W, 2006) that critiqued the “hockey-stick” graph claiming the Medieval Warm Period (c1000-1300) was no warmer than the Little Ice Age (c.1400-1720) and was featured on the cover of the IPCC’s TAR (2001).<br />A certain Bradley, one of the co-authors of the first hockey stick paper (Mann Bradley Hughes 1998), has joined Mashey in accusing WR of “plagiarism”. <br /><br />But in W p.10 we read: “Table 1 based on Bradley (1999) illustrates the wide variety of these natural phenomena that may be used as proxies. Some proxies measure very low frequency (slowly varying) climatic variables and thus are not useful for measuring average annual temperature changes. Table 2 found in Bradley (1999), which was reproduced from Bradley and Eddy (1991)…”.<br /><br />Then in Mashey (Section 2.6) we read “W.2.1 introduces serious Biases in plagiarizing Bradley (1999) on tree rings” . However in W.2.1 we find on p.11 “Table 1: Principal Sources of Proxy Data for Paleoclimatic Reconstructions After Bradley (1999)”.<br /><br />In W p.12 Table 2 we find “After Bradley and Eddy (1991)”.<br /><br />W pp.13-14 has a discussion of use of tree ring proxies to determine historical temperature trends which Deep Climate (aka Mashey?) shows to be quite close but not identical to material in Bradley 1999, but in W. p.14 at the end of the para. in question we find W saying “See Bradley (1999) for a discussion of the fitting and calibration process for dendritic-based temperature reconstruction...”<br /><br />In Mashey p.34 we find him still claiming Bradley was plagiarised in W Section 2.1: “Bradley (1999), plagiarismW.2.1” despite no fewer than SIX citations of Bradley by W. in section 2.1.<br /><br />The last 50 pages of Mashey still claim plagiarisms by W. in its summaries of the key hockey stick papers including those with Bradley as co-author. Each page of the W summaries cites the paper being summarised. If that is plagiarism, what would not be?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-86502175956760459102010-10-11T07:05:14.817-04:002010-10-11T07:05:14.817-04:00Eli,
I did do a complete comparison of Rapp and We...Eli,<br />I did do a complete comparison of Rapp and Wegman.<br /><br />See:<br />http://deepclimate.org/2010/01/06/wegman-and-rapp-on-proxies-a-divergence-problem-part-2/ <br /><br />The actual comparison with additions and deletions is here:<br />http://deepclimate.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/wegman-rapp-proxies.pdf<br /><br />I also looked at Rapp's use of a long block quote from Soon and Baliunas, also based on the Bradley passages that Wegman et al used (!). That quote was properly cited, but as in the Wegman case, all citations to Bradley were carefully removed. Smoking gun, no?<br /><br />http://deepclimate.org/2010/01/07/donald-rapp-more-divergence-problems/<br /><br /><i>So we have the extraordinary situation where Rapp has made extensive use of two “grey” sources that both rely primarily upon the same root source, even resulting in repetition of the same information. And yet somehow all references to that source has been excised; in fact, Bradley’s Paleoclimatology text book is not listed at all among Rapp’s references.</i><br /><br />I also pointed out other problems in Rapp's section 1.2, which was largely based on based on a web page entitled “A quick background to the last ice age” from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. There are no doubt other problems lurking and waiting to be discovered.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-72346786030587902802010-10-11T03:31:02.453-04:002010-10-11T03:31:02.453-04:00Eli, it looks as if "to be" near the end...Eli, it looks as if "to be" near the end of that last long paragraph should also be in red.Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-88492138372709653812010-10-10T21:13:50.476-04:002010-10-10T21:13:50.476-04:00"Don't they represent Monkton?"
No, ..."Don't they represent Monkton?"<br />No, that's Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe.<br /><br />http://www.dewey-cheatham-howe.com/CapitalClimatehttp://capitalclimate.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-34112927072337252192010-10-10T18:42:43.038-04:002010-10-10T18:42:43.038-04:00Perhaps Rapp's legal eagles are Huffe, Puffe, ...Perhaps Rapp's legal eagles are Huffe, Puffe, Delay and Dissapear. Don't they represent Monkton?<br /><br />John McManusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-33755078479437633762010-10-10T16:48:11.274-04:002010-10-10T16:48:11.274-04:00Doug said: "never in the field of academic en...Doug said: "never in the field of academic endeavour has so much citation been owed to so little actual content"<br /><br />If that were so, why copy it in the first place? One of many reasons plagiarism is wrong is that it imputes the expertise behind the written phrase to somebody else who probably does not have that expertise.<br /><br />Cheers, Someone Who Actually Wrote a Dissertation Mouse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com