tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post7224105828444575380..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: The one weird trick missing from coverage of carbon emission rules for new power plants EliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-61176521802524525912013-09-28T22:01:40.454-04:002013-09-28T22:01:40.454-04:00No thanks, I'm not into cave man physics. My t...No thanks, I'm not into cave man physics. My take on reality is considerably more sophisticated.<br /><br />You realize I am a condensed matter physicist, no? I didn't think so.Thomas Lee Elifritzhttp://cosmic.lifeform.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-36692459031345942292013-09-28T15:06:20.412-04:002013-09-28T15:06:20.412-04:00@Thomas L
Start here:
http://www.iea.org/techno/e...@Thomas L<br /><br />Start here:<br />http://www.iea.org/techno/essentials1.pdf<br /><br />-HAUS.MAUSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-79493381462771234572013-09-28T12:27:07.793-04:002013-09-28T12:27:07.793-04:00Thank you for such an enlightening discussion of a...Thank you for such an enlightening discussion of all the issues involved with this global problem.<br /><br />I will file your suggestion away immediately in its proper place. And when you have an actual point to make, I will give it the proper consideration that it deserves.Thomas Lee Elifritzhttp://cosmic.lifeform.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-57166142176491141262013-09-27T23:32:28.631-04:002013-09-27T23:32:28.631-04:00@Thomas Lee
You are confused.
-HAUS.MAUS@Thomas Lee<br /><br />You are confused.<br /><br />-HAUS.MAUSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-91472219912700096712013-09-27T17:25:11.178-04:002013-09-27T17:25:11.178-04:00Enthalpy of formation and conservation of energy a...Enthalpy of formation and conservation of energy are concepts that are extremely unforgiving of fools. There is just no way that pumping this crap under the ground or capturing it will work out.<br /><br />I suggest you stop the offending behavior. You don't even have to stop having sex, just use latex. And start thinking about getting your pathetic asses off the planet and out of the biosphere. Humans and natural biospheres are incompatible, and the sooner you realize that the sooner you can bet about the task of extracting carbon from carbon dioxide and building reusable launchers and space habitats out of that carbon.Thomas Lee Elifritzhttp://cosmic.lifeform.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-15188009931034452562013-09-26T03:16:08.360-04:002013-09-26T03:16:08.360-04:00Can probably get 80% cuts in electricity productio...Can probably get 80% cuts in electricity production emissions without CCS (esp. if you're okay with nuclear) but utility emissions are less than half the problem. Transport electrification will push a lot of emissions into that column, but there will always be sources that can't be electrified. CCS becomes particularly useful as we take care of the easy stuff and start going after the "long tail" of the large number of smaller emitters (need air capture for a lot of this).<br /><br />Fossil fuel + CCS might be cheaper than using transmission and storage to cover solar/wind variability. We haven't hit the limits of renewable integration yet, so no urgent need for CCS yet.<br /><br />As solar/wind start to scale up to the capacity we need, we'll start to see new challenges like material shortages and lack of suitable sites.<br /><br />-HAUS.MAUSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-55136575795180503762013-09-25T23:10:33.773-04:002013-09-25T23:10:33.773-04:00Measuring where you sequester carbon would have to...Measuring where you sequester carbon would have to be additional to measuring where you produce it (unless you don't measure, you just estimate based on fuel consumption). I doubt measurement's a big issue, if you can ignore leakage (which doesn't seem much of a problem at less than very long time scales).<br /><br />Still if solar and wind beat CCS now and are getting better faster, it's hard to see where CCS gets an advantage even if you had to do 80% cuts. Unless technology changes or political incentives kick in. Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09301230860904555513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-71697975899961930672013-09-25T08:46:26.321-04:002013-09-25T08:46:26.321-04:00HAUS.MAUS: "You measure CO2 at the point wher...HAUS.MAUS: "You measure CO2 at the point where you shove it underground."<br /><br />Yeah, that occurred to me as I was climbing out of the shower this morning. A scheme like that would be more economic than monitoring exhaust, and more politically attractive if added to a tax-at-source proposal. Maybe I'll write my congresscritter 8^).Mal Adaptedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06123525780458234978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-62460207968663875752013-09-24T21:56:19.950-04:002013-09-24T21:56:19.950-04:00@Mal
You measure CO2 at the point where you shove...@Mal<br /><br />You measure CO2 at the point where you shove it underground.<br /><br />In a C tax system like you describe CCS does require an additional implementation step to get the required refund or credit or whatever.<br /><br />Just like you tax the fuel at the point of extraction, you issue credit at the point of sequestration.<br /><br />The specifics are up to the lawyer/politician types.<br /><br />-HAUS.MAUSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-56923302464112712482013-09-24T12:56:10.549-04:002013-09-24T12:56:10.549-04:00HAUS.MAUS: "Even the strongest proponents ack...HAUS.MAUS: "Even the strongest proponents acknowledge that CCS can't compete at today's low or nonexistent carbon prices."<br /><br />How does CCS compete even at high carbon prices? Are emissions to be measured for carbon content at every smokestack and tailpipe? Methinks the cost of enforcement would make that uneconomic as well, compared to taxing fossil fuels at the mine/wellhead/port of entry.Mal Adaptedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06123525780458234978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-28108022102607831582013-09-24T02:15:44.116-04:002013-09-24T02:15:44.116-04:00Agreed that CCS hasn't performed well, but:
1...Agreed that CCS hasn't performed well, but:<br /><br />1. Maybe the breakthrough is just around the corner. For example, electric vehicles now have a shot against internal combustion that wasn't obvious 20 years ago. Assuming that will happen is a mistake, but it could be worth funding R&D just in case.<br /><br />2. I'm willing to do irrational things to get a political deal. Economic support for CCS and possibly nuclear (if needed) could be part of a deal. Devil in the details though.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09301230860904555513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-87957579725326380862013-09-24T00:48:18.493-04:002013-09-24T00:48:18.493-04:00¨Solar power has a mix of good news and bad news.¨...¨Solar power has a mix of good news and bad news.¨ Where´s the bad news? Policy blowbacks in many places as solar starts to pose a real threat to fossil incumbents, and the temporary glut leading to bankruptcies of higher-cost producers. These are merely Schumpeterian growing pains - the strongest Chinese companies are back to profitable growth. I would put the mix at 90% good. James Wimberleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10039653150309817093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-70929204197965965972013-09-23T23:05:46.210-04:002013-09-23T23:05:46.210-04:00I agree that CCS is hopelessly too expensive.I agree that CCS is hopelessly too expensive.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-54942899006408268942013-09-23T16:33:34.469-04:002013-09-23T16:33:34.469-04:00RE: CCS "uneconomic"
Yes, but with a ve...RE: CCS "uneconomic"<br /><br />Yes, but with a very big asterisk; CCS is uneconomic at low carbon prices. Even the strongest proponents acknowledge that CCS can't compete at today's low or nonexistent carbon prices. There are many cheaper or even negative cost options available.<br /><br />(I can dig up some estimates if anyone asks me to.)<br /><br />But once we start talking about 80% emissions reductions, we're getting into territory where CCS looks good. We can't get 80% reductions with penny per gallon level C taxes. Whole building retrofits and utility scale solar aren't cheap either.<br /><br />Many "uneconomic" strategies are being pursued already, because they have co-benefits and/or PR value. Just about the only co-benefit available to CCS is enhanced oil recovery. Environmentalists aren't exactly lining up in favor. Many prominent environmentalists are dismissive or hostile towards CCS, but don't really understand the technology or its maturity. The same people who dismiss CCS on a cost basis enthusiastically endorse Concentrating solar plants or off-shore wind that are terribly uncompetitive.<br /><br />Also, historically, many "uneconomic" technologies and industries survive because the government wants them to (or is otherwise coerced -look at South Africa's coal to liquids industry). We could see a future where CCS happens not because it's a good idea, but because the government is compelled to protect jobs in rural areas. What benefit does the government derive from subsidizing corn monoculture? Yet it happens.<br /><br />-HAUS.MAUSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-29508682943693929392013-09-21T12:13:00.121-04:002013-09-21T12:13:00.121-04:00@WC
I don't see why it really matters in this ...@WC<br />I don't see why it really matters in this case. Upgrading the efficiency of the coal fleet is like buffing out the scratches on a wrecked car. Regs for existing plants should be coming soon anyways. Would a carbon tax work better? Yes -You are invited to come sell that to the current House of Representatives.<br /><br />Do the proposed regs care exactly how you sequester the carbon? Is enhanced oil recovery allowed?<br /><br />-HAUS.MAUSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-75430887039845976112013-09-21T05:22:31.597-04:002013-09-21T05:22:31.597-04:00CCS won't happen (except, as you note, where i...CCS won't happen (except, as you note, where its propped up) because it isn't economic.<br /><br />It can be argued (see Timmy) that effectively banning new coal plants is good news for the existing coal plants. Which are the inefficient ones.William M. Connolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05836299130680534926noreply@blogger.com