tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post6402950155038254124..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Renewable Energy and Creative ConstructionEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-39693497716673562762017-05-08T12:02:40.843-04:002017-05-08T12:02:40.843-04:00KAP, I'm not familiar with the situation in th...KAP, I'm not familiar with the situation in the US but over on this side of the pond industrial and commercial demand side response potential is currently thought to amount to a useful 3GW reduction / 2GW increase. On the other hand we have an average hot water demand of around 9GW (80TWh/yr), 80% of which is domestic hot water and around half of which could be supplied by electricity. Coincidentally our passenger car fleet would also lead to a roughly 9GW average demand if electrified. <br /><br />For reference our average electricity demand is about 34GW (300TWh/yr).<br /><br />Fitting a smart thermostat that can take a price signal to hot water cylinders would be a simple measure and all an electric vehicle owner would need to do is simply plug in when they park and leave it to an algorithm to optimise the charging based on wholesale price, value from balancing services provided and desired range. No monitoring would be required in either case.<br /><br />Whatever your preferred future grid mix, these sorts of technologies are inevitable in a largely electrified future. Even if you think nuclear is going to dominate, we can't have a load of electricity demand from air con / space heating / hot water / electric vehicles etc (not to mention the usual energy using products) dropping on to the grid in an uncontrolled manner.JamieBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08115122688261135818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-9972613376108511912017-05-06T15:54:58.772-04:002017-05-06T15:54:58.772-04:00The Sec Nav should conspire with the Secretary of ...The Sec Nav should conspire with the Secretary of energy take a bite out of the national debt by plugging all the nuclear subs & carriers in port into the local grid , and opening up some shrimp farms alongside to consume the warm outwash to cut the naval seafood bill by couple of gigawatt hours a week.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-1336004777681679622017-05-06T12:57:28.393-04:002017-05-06T12:57:28.393-04:00Beakers. - A key application for cheap renewable ...Beakers. - A key application for cheap renewable and/or nuclear power could be fixing N fertiliser. The industry has followed cheap gas (that was previously flared, demonstrating that there is nothing new in low or zero pricing) to the middle east - The Norwegian owned Yara used to be called Hydro after its power source, but as they needed to expand was drawn away by cheap gas, first to the former USSR then to the Gulf States. Projects have been looking at displacing the massive centralised factory production with small plants that run intermittently when the power is cheap. Particularly interesting for farmers on loess soils who use anhydrous ammonia, the plant does not even have to process the fertiliser into prills. Sadly, anhydrous ammonia injection is a bit smelly and dangerous here in the stony UK.<br />Its a good way of mopping up excess power from intermittent renewables and/or inflexible nuclear, displacing gas consumption, and with the prospect of the ammonia also being used for energy storage. Beakershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00683069153321019158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-84547452029559886672017-05-06T12:52:30.457-04:002017-05-06T12:52:30.457-04:00Eli, and JamieB,
The "market" cannot re...Eli, and JamieB,<br /><br />The "market" cannot re-balance unless retail consumers are exposed to the wholesale price of electricity, and that's quite unlikely to happen. Commercial consumers are simply unable to demand-shift in any meaningful way (because the hours of stores are not flexible). Industrial consumers might demand shift, by requiring their employees to work odd hours on very short notice (perhaps when the buses aren't running) -- but industrial consumers are already being offered the lowest possible prices, to keep industrial jobs in the community. That makes it unlikely that the price break they might get would be worth the schedule-juggling required to get it. So the bulk of demand-shifting burden will necessarily fall to household consumers, which are paying the highest energy prices. And those are exactly the people who have the least amount of time, effort, and capital needed to track a constantly shifting electricity price.<br /><br />The widespread belief that nuclear cannot load-follow is a pernicious myth invented by the anti-nuclear (fossil-industry funded) propaganda machine. The fact is that a nuclear plant can ramp as fast as a combined-cycle gas plant (turbines don't care where the heat comes from.) Nuclear routinely load-follows on US Navy ships and subs, and nuclear routinely load-follows in France. It's true that nuclear in the US doesn't load follow, but that is because it's always cheaper to turn off the fossil plants first when demand falls. The use of nuclear as baseload-only is an economic decision, not a technological constraint.KAPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11189506171267750391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-51435937244565913452017-05-05T22:17:26.378-04:002017-05-05T22:17:26.378-04:00See Stanford Energy System Innovations (SESI).
It&...See <a href="https://sustainable.stanford.edu/campus-action/stanford-energy-system-innovations-sesi" rel="nofollow">Stanford Energy System Innovations (SESI)</a>.<br />It's well worth spending an hour on (Free) tour, ~every other Thursday,just book.<br /><br />Among other things, ti can respond quickly to price fluctuations in converting electricity into hot and/or cold water.JohnMasheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08174651130367553996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-49886047841305439982017-05-05T14:32:36.144-04:002017-05-05T14:32:36.144-04:00So Canman thinks the battery industry is uneconomi...So Canman thinks the battery industry is uneconomical? Battery manufacturers and their shareholders may disagree with your assessment of the value of their stocks. Why do you hate the free markets Canman?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-58210854523682526482017-05-05T12:22:07.784-04:002017-05-05T12:22:07.784-04:00If any economical battery storage is developed, it...If any economical battery storage is developed, it might be better used to keep nuclear plants running at an optimal level.<br /><br />How will markets treat VRE? I suspect that states and countries that subsidize it'll be played for suckers. Industry will locate in areas with reliable base load and get a slight bonus from buying surplus VRE that has to be dumped during peak periods. Check out this tweet by Steve McIntyre responding to tweet by Naomi Oreskes praising wind power:<br /><br />https://twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/830446234951438338<br /><br />"<br />4Q2016: Ontario paid $425MM for unneeded windpower from govt cronies, dumping for $5MM to NY and Michigan. Fiasco.<br />"Mike Dombroskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14722885486530482844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-68579693608182330462017-05-04T19:41:09.920-04:002017-05-04T19:41:09.920-04:00Maddox might rule in favor of Tyndall, but Maddox ...Maddox might rule in favor of Tyndall, but Maddox was Welsh, look you .<br /><br />Multiplying scientific intuition by prose quality Freeman may well be the best living scientist-writer, and certainly the most universe-disturbing. THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-81626835538304357352017-05-04T18:03:21.112-04:002017-05-04T18:03:21.112-04:00Fernando, any car that burns American gasoline do...Fernando, any car that burns American gasoline does that in an hour .THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-32372636409589087802017-05-04T14:19:38.385-04:002017-05-04T14:19:38.385-04:00Your post has a problem: it glosses over the fact ...Your post has a problem: it glosses over the fact that having excess renewable energy for short periods of time isn't a positive outcome. In a sense, it's as if you brag because you can drink a bottle of vodka in three hours.Fernando Leanmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16085680730729620836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-14849503797302457212017-05-04T14:18:27.372-04:002017-05-04T14:18:27.372-04:00
Eli admirers the lettersmithing of nuclear bomber...<br />Eli admirers the lettersmithing of nuclear bombers.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-86450280321543445872017-05-04T13:32:26.539-04:002017-05-04T13:32:26.539-04:00Magmac, having won Gold with the largest zuccini...Magmac, having won Gold with the largest zuccini in the the history of the Dukes County Agricultural Fair, the Republican proprietors of Squbnocket duly left it at the vacationing Clinton's gate house, where ,rumor has it , it took two platoons of Secret Service and Special Forces to whittle the preosterous vegetable into salad extender and ratatuoillle.<br /><br />The Clintons failed to send a thank-you note, forever sealing their electoral fate.<br /><br />This was a decade after the fall in which Freeman Dyson plalaced a surplus coil copper pipe placed in a disused Princeton outdoor swimming pool, which he had bulldozed full of snow that winter. Run through the Physics Department's radiators, the 0 c meltwater cooled the place admirably through the next summer for the cost of one tank of bulldozer diesel.<br /><br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-82953668933020173852017-05-04T13:25:04.251-04:002017-05-04T13:25:04.251-04:00"...solar and wind up to the curtailment poin..."...solar and wind up to the curtailment point; and nuclear for the rest."<br /><br />And where is the curtailment point? With more flex in our demand, we could soak up vast amounts of VRE. A few hundred thousand EVs represents about a GW of demand that could be aggregated and made available to grid controllers. A similar number of immersion heaters also represents a GW. <br /><br />Nuclear reduces the potential for VRE in the system (it does seem that new nuclear can flex a bit to accommodate it though) and with the way VRE (and storage) prices are heading vs the way new nuclear prices are heading, I just can't see something with as long a lead time and lifetime as large nukes being a sensible bet.JamieBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08115122688261135818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-81319603170596504732017-05-04T12:37:11.292-04:002017-05-04T12:37:11.292-04:00In this nuclear is look squirrel. RE low prices at...In this nuclear is look squirrel. RE low prices at peak r because demand has not built up to cover supply. Market will rebalance in a short time. This is one of those problems that capitalism solvesEli Rabrtthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13793489993164786719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-65846484743413333112017-05-04T11:04:08.204-04:002017-05-04T11:04:08.204-04:00One man's price is another man's revenue. ...One man's price is another man's revenue. How many investors would put up a wind turbine on a grid where negative pricing for electricity is common <i>when the wind is strongest?</i> Nobody, absent significant government subsidy or requirement to do so. <br /><br />And this is the whole issue: wind and solar inevitably competes with itself, driving wind and solar prices (and therefore <i>revenues</i>) down to unsustainable levels. The snake eats its own tail. The hundred-percenters will at this point raise the banner of storage; but the cost (and cost-benefit ratio, and EROI) of storage are <b>invariably</b> ignored while they tell the world how cheap RE has become. It's a shell game, and too many keep falling for the con.<br /><br />VRE absolutely requires dispatchable backup, and the more VRE on the system, the more dispatchable backup is needed. There is simply no way around this equation. The current system can absorb a significant amount of VRE only because we already have that, but it's mostly in the form of natural gas. So the critical climate question becomes: what is the <i>non-fossil</i> dispatchable backup that we absolutely require in order to put more VRE on the system? (And here, "more" means anything above the curtailment level).<br /><br />If you're not including nuclear in your thinking at this point, you're missing the boat. Numerous studies, including e.g. the <a href="http://unsdsn.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/US-Deep-Decarbonization-Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">Deep Decarbonization Pathways Project</a>, point the way: the cheapest, fastest way to decarbonize the grid (and society) is simply: hydro and geothermal where available; solar and wind up to the curtailment point; and nuclear for the rest.KAPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11189506171267750391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-86623423786132132542017-05-04T01:04:41.342-04:002017-05-04T01:04:41.342-04:00Electricity has become like zucchini at the end of...<i>Electricity has become like zucchini at the end of the summer, when gardeners leave a few hundred pounds on your doorstep, ring the bell and run</i><br /><br />I'm sure there are countries where that doesn't happen, but it's been a rare year when either my or my neighbor's small garden didn't produce a bumper crop. That sinking feeling when you open the heavy paper bag that's been handed you with a pasted-on smile (fresh tomatoes? fruit? corn?) only to see more of the insipid green cylinders.<br /><br />Of course that cheap surplus off-peak power can eventually heat homes on winter nights and charge cars year-round. I wonder how long our contrarian friends will manage to keep this particular denial ball in the air?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com