tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post4797207366428592715..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Another Framing DebacleEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-89664651125447783812012-11-18T13:27:46.871-05:002012-11-18T13:27:46.871-05:00For certain definitions of "employed", y...For certain definitions of "employed", yes. One synonym of which is "to use".<br /><br />dhogazanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-31599828570041117992012-11-18T04:37:00.648-05:002012-11-18T04:37:00.648-05:00Washington employed slaves?Washington <i>employed</i> slaves? <br /><br /><br /><br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-88285641319045793412012-11-17T09:54:54.406-05:002012-11-17T09:54:54.406-05:00Hey, Russell, does the fact that Washington employ...Hey, Russell, does the fact that Washington employed slaves mean that you support slavery, too?dhogazanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-73320347271340296952012-11-16T21:52:02.054-05:002012-11-16T21:52:02.054-05:00This concludes the day's quotations from Alber...This concludes the day's quotations from Albert Einstein and George Washington.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-21391456808467811952012-11-16T21:49:39.552-05:002012-11-16T21:49:39.552-05:00"If you cannot send Money, send Tobacco."..."If you cannot send Money, send Tobacco."THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-33935773335348667492012-11-16T15:28:17.854-05:002012-11-16T15:28:17.854-05:00" I believe that pipe smoking contributes to ..." I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgment in all human affairs."<br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-74257608305193676952012-11-16T14:44:55.738-05:002012-11-16T14:44:55.738-05:00Hank:
can you say more about
' energy companie...Hank:<br />can you say more about<br />' energy companies have long done climate modeling -- paleoclimate modeling'?<br /><br />because I think someone was confused by the terminology, because this doesn't make sense.<br /><br />1) Cigarette companies, faced with strong scientific evidence of cigarette/disease links, did a lot of internal research either to disprove that, or else somehow find that disease was caused by things they could change without affecting nicotine addiction, such as paper or additives. No credible research ever gave them the results they wanted, so it never got published.<br /><br />2) People run existing climate models versus paleoclimate date typically for last 1,000-2,000 years, and maybe use data from the Holocene, and the last few million years, when the CO2 levels reached the knife-edge range that allows Milankovitch to drive glacial cycles.<br /><br />3) Oil folks spend many compute cycles on seismic analysis and reservoir modeling. Anything they do with modeling of reservoir formation would have been for geological-timescale processes hundreds of millions of years ago.<br />John Masheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-63356608685097545822012-11-16T06:24:22.609-05:002012-11-16T06:24:22.609-05:00@ Brian
I think this little lot is also why there...@ Brian<br /><br />I think this little lot is also why there should be more framing of the climate debate within the context of whether you're pro-Holocene or anti-Holocene, i.e. whether you're pro-agriculture or anti-agriculture.<br /><br />* <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/content/328/5980/899.abstract" rel="nofollow">Carbon Dioxide Enrichment Inhibits Nitrate Assimilation in Wheat and Arabidopsis</a>. Bloom et al (2010).<br />* <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/content/298/5600/1987.short" rel="nofollow">Grassland Responses to Global Environmental Changes Suppressed by Elevated CO2</a>. (Shaw 2007)<br />* <a href="http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=32370807846477k5&size=largest" rel="nofollow">Photosynthetic inhibition after long-term exposure to elevated levels of carbon dioxide</a>.(DeLucia 1985)<br />* <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080324173612.htm" rel="nofollow">Insects Take A Bigger Bite Out Of Plants In A Higher Carbon Dioxide World</a>.<br />* <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/content/312/5782/1918.abstract" rel="nofollow">Food for Thought: Lower-Than-Expected Crop Yield Stimulation with Rising CO2 Concentrations</a><br />* <a href="http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/13565/1/IND43994514.pdf" rel="nofollow">Temperature dependence of growth, development, and photosynthesis in maize under elevated CO2 (PDF)</a><br />* <a href="http://http://www.pnas.org/content/101/31/11506.full" rel="nofollow">Nitrate assimilation in plant shoots depends on photorespiration</a><br />* <a href="http://http://www.sciencemag.org/content/298/5600/1987.short" rel="nofollow">Grassland Responses to Global Environmental Changes Suppressed by Elevated CO2</a><br /><br />Life was much harder before the Neolitihic Revolution.J Bowersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-36571645756062468762012-11-16T05:26:59.979-05:002012-11-16T05:26:59.979-05:00> One thing is clear (from
> Proctor): the ...> One thing is clear (from <br />> Proctor): the tobacco guys <br />> sponsored a *lot* of research <br />> that never got published, <br />> except via the tobacco <br />> archives.<br /><br />As a little kid with big ears ("faculty brat") often wandering around the Duke Biology Dep't in the 1950s, I recall hearing from the relatively impoverished faculty we knew that there was another group -- tenured older professors -- whose well supported and longstanding research programs never published in the journals, because their work was all done for the tobacco companies and that's where their grad students found employment.<br /><br />I recall someone at RC pointing out years ago that the energy companies have long done climate modeling -- paleoclimate modeling -- to figure out where basins formed that would have accumulated sediment that became petrochemicals (and where continental drift would have moved them). Also not published. Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-7673941050499584962012-11-16T00:13:47.639-05:002012-11-16T00:13:47.639-05:00"more people actually die of other tobacco-re..."more people actually die of other tobacco-related diseases other than lung cancer, but that was focused on because most lung cancer deaths are caused by cigarette smoke."<br /><br />For a similar reason I think sea level rise, even the relatively modest amount seen to date, is the key legal tool, because it's mostly attributable to GHG emissions.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09301230860904555513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-43846966341128994672012-11-15T23:45:16.845-05:002012-11-15T23:45:16.845-05:00I look forward to the Kindle editions of
Go Fish...I look forward to the Kindle editions of <br /><br />Go Fish: <i>The Racketeering Case Against The Finnan Haddie Industry</i><br /><br />Cinnabar Holocaust:<i> the Carcinogenic Cantonese Condiment Catastrophe & the Case for the Abolition of Lapsang Souchong Tea, Nitrosamine Pickles, Szechuan peppercorns, and Mercury Sulfide Feng Shui Paint</i><br /><br /><br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-21036794816488668742012-11-15T16:42:25.869-05:002012-11-15T16:42:25.869-05:00The car companies spend a lot money producing tech...The car companies spend a lot money producing technical engineering documents to design cars.<br /><br />Then, the automakers spend a lot more money designing glossy showroom brochures. Why don't they use use the technical documents that they created to build the cars? <br /><br />(Because technical documents do not sell! )<br /><br />We need to be as smart about teaching science and math as the automakers are about selling cars.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150805906414546377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-89166137287132382022012-11-15T16:08:49.502-05:002012-11-15T16:08:49.502-05:00cym
Sorry, I was in a hurry.
Of course, you'd ...cym<br />Sorry, I was in a hurry.<br />Of course, you'd said deaths from lung cancer, whereas I was thinking of total deaths attributable to smoking.John Masheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-40473107502499108212012-11-15T16:03:06.386-05:002012-11-15T16:03:06.386-05:00JM, see here and search for 1.37:
Cancer is a lea...JM, see <a href="http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs297/en/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and search for 1.37:<br /><br /><i>Cancer is a leading cause of death worldwide and accounted for 7.6 million deaths (around 13% of all deaths) in 2008. The main types of cancer are:<br /><br /> lung (1.37 million deaths)</i><br /><br />I didn't search any deeper, as it was meant to be order of magnitude correct only and it tied in nicely (given the percentage usually ascribed to tobacco) with an estimate which I just happened to read about a couple of days earlier in a <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20042217" rel="nofollow">BBC article</a> about Jordan Goodman's <i>Tobacco in History</i> that touches on James Duke's part in all this (yes, he of Duke University philanthropy) and James Bonsack's equipment design for mechanisation of rolling the evil weed into little white cancer sticks.<br /><br />Perhaps I'll delve a bit deeper if I have time.<br /><br /><i>Cymraeg llygoden</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-51836953950883313152012-11-15T15:04:16.658-05:002012-11-15T15:04:16.658-05:00See Why Climate Deniers Have No Scientific Credibi...See <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/11/15/why-climate-deniers-have-no-credibility-science-one-pie-chart" rel="nofollow">Why Climate Deniers Have No Scientific Credibility - In One Pie Chart</a> by James Powell.John Masheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-85256785452122564352012-11-15T14:16:00.120-05:002012-11-15T14:16:00.120-05:00@ MT
I don't even bother with "97% of cl...@ MT<br /><br />I don't even bother with "97% of climate scientists" anymore, whereas the only argument against the glaring implications in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change" rel="nofollow">THIS WIKI PAGE</a> is to claim a conspiracy on a Dan Brown scale.J Bowersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-73715489878434158822012-11-15T13:53:44.254-05:002012-11-15T13:53:44.254-05:00Re J Bowers:
+1 "false consensus bias"Re J Bowers:<br /><br />+1 "false consensus bias"Michael Tobishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08229460438349093944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-43550693763839313142012-11-15T13:26:11.648-05:002012-11-15T13:26:11.648-05:00Cym:
Where did you get your nubmers?
WHO says this...Cym:<br />Where did you get your nubmers?<br />WHO says <a href="http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs339/en/index.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>, and the numbers are rather higher.John Masheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-53834091508235392402012-11-15T13:24:36.158-05:002012-11-15T13:24:36.158-05:00Holly, for Judy's "return to sanity"...Holly, for Judy's "return to sanity" see the new blog climatedialogue. I'm still trying to find any sanity from Curry there. Let me know if *you* can find it...<br /><br />MarcoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-6889323774191821532012-11-15T10:04:15.467-05:002012-11-15T10:04:15.467-05:00Yes, what's happened to Curry's blog? Leg...Yes, what's happened to Curry's blog? Legal problems, payment problems, technical glitch, sudden return to sanity?Holly Stickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01137842937086115228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-80840043141465575092012-11-15T08:43:24.213-05:002012-11-15T08:43:24.213-05:00Why has Kai turned so sour? I seem to recall a ni...Why has Kai turned so sour? I seem to recall a nice chat with him. <br /><br />Wait, it seems that I can't find it at Judy's this morning.willardhttp://neverendingaudit.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-12130689519184986802012-11-15T07:05:46.499-05:002012-11-15T07:05:46.499-05:00"Research aimed at curing lung cancer..."...<i>"Research aimed at curing lung cancer..."</i><br /><br />Ah, but... Hasn't the research largely been done... and largely been ignored?<br /><br /><br />The "cure" for lung cancer is relatively simple in most cases. <i>Prevention!</i> And prevention is always better than cure, isn't it? <br /><br />The numbers have been available for a long time, in some cases on the order of 50 years. We know the causes of most lung cancers: inhalation of carcinogens (usually over prolonged periods). These inhaled carcinogens are, amongst other sources, largely to be found in tobacco smoke (and the smoke of it's wacky "herbal" alternatives), in high radon-source localities, most forms of respirable asbestos (and other respirable particulates), and vehicle fumes.<br /><br />What's difficult about tackling most of those? Ah, that would be vested interests... and plain ol' human stoopidity.<br /><br />Once those "confounding" factors are removed, then instead of about 140 million premature deaths from lung cancer per century** you'd be largely left with those with a genetic predisposition (which ain't very many in the scheme of things -- my guesstimate would be on the order of 0.1% of that figure, maybe 1% tops). <br /><br />Then it would be easier, perhaps, to find the "real cure" for those who, genetically speaking, have no choice in the matter of whether they are likely to get lung cancer or not (as opposed to those who have no choice in the matter but to put up with carcinogens in their local environment, that is).<br /><br />The worst scenario I can imagine is finding a surefire way of curing lung cancer so that I might have to take medication I ordinarily wouldn't need to protect me from others' stoopidness and filthy habit. Hmmm. But I suppose that might be more preferable than to have to undergo chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and/or surgery because of someone else's kindly meant second-hand smoke donation to my possible future unwellbeing.<br /><br /><br />**OK, that's a very large number that some might consider fanciful, so we can use the WHO figure instead, which is just shy of 1.4 million per year :-J<br /><br /><i>Cymraeg llygoden</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-65888852027226129522012-11-15T02:10:26.117-05:002012-11-15T02:10:26.117-05:00If social engineering were not the aim of tobacco ...If social engineering were not the aim of tobacco prohibitionists, one would expect the bulk of the $250 billion to go towards <br /><br />1. Rendering tobacco products less carcinogenic and reducing their respiratory impact.<br /><br />2. Research aimed at curing lung cancer and emphysema <br /><br />AIDS research does not focus on public awareness of Leviticus or the risks of second hand HIV THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-72103541220247480562012-11-14T23:32:53.292-05:002012-11-14T23:32:53.292-05:00Eli:
'The one thing that took some time was to...Eli:<br />'The one thing that took some time was to establish an animal model because humans are about the only animal that addicts to nicotine. The others would rather not.'<br /><br />I didn't say the animals *wanted* to get addicted. Obviously if one can only addict baboons by requiring them to smoke to get water, Joe Camel ads are not enough to convince them. Apparently, there are no baboon marketeers whose skill matches the tobacco guys.<br /><br />Here's <a href="http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/kfd67a00/pdf" rel="nofollow">Animal taught smoking habit</a> in 1965.<br /><br />One thing is clear (from Proctor): the tobacco guys sponsored a *lot* of research that never got published, except via the tobacco archives.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />John Masheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-41248613284593447372012-11-14T22:54:34.628-05:002012-11-14T22:54:34.628-05:00Re: wind-bashing windbags in Blighty - more on the...Re: wind-bashing windbags in Blighty - <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2012/nov/14/unpicking-john-hayes-response-corby?intcmp=239" rel="nofollow">more</a> on the Tory/Telegraph extremist alliance.billnoreply@blogger.com