tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post4164639728490571736..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: EliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-23467744810185429482009-11-21T22:15:29.351-05:002009-11-21T22:15:29.351-05:00So, Eli, what d'ya think, could Tol actually c...So, Eli, what d'ya think, could Tol actually contribute useful tutoring to the public if sufficiently compensated? I'd open a tip jar if money's the only leverage, if the man could make a difference. I can't tell from what I see in public.Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-49851964736890833682009-11-17T23:19:14.936-05:002009-11-17T23:19:14.936-05:00Let me correct myself: that should read "...Let me correct myself: that should read "... IN airplanes."<br /><br />http://www.ginandtacos.com/2008/08/31/atheistsfoxholes-libertariansairplanes/<br /><br />And thank you Eli for introducing me to yet another fine blogger.Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-47846825817226167362009-11-17T21:18:22.142-05:002009-11-17T21:18:22.142-05:00Remember there's a great human tradition of sw...Remember there's a great human tradition of switching to the winning side at the last minute, taking credit for the victory, and never having to give up the comfortable dominant position and the comfy chair.<br /><br />That 'Prodigal Son' story has it right, sad to say.<br /><br />Here's where Breakthrough is going, I suspect, with their youth programs -- finding out where the people are going so they can lead them, with perhaps just a little bend to the libertarian side.<br /><br />But never forget: "There are no libertarians on airplanes."<br /><br />If the kids realize the planet is just a big, big airplane, Breakthrough loses.<br /><br />http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/author/jessejenkins/Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-39047455247571636682009-11-17T10:54:40.740-05:002009-11-17T10:54:40.740-05:00Do Eli's carrot buy the fabled (though never s...Do Eli's carrot buy the fabled (though never seen) one handed economist?<br /><br />Also what Hank saidEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-90694326189053452822009-11-17T10:23:49.398-05:002009-11-17T10:23:49.398-05:00What we need, from those who take the problem seri...What we need, from those who take the problem seriously, is careful, clear, 7th-grade-English public tutoring.<br /><br />That's the average reading literacy level out there right now.<br /><br />I've never seen a study on the reading grade level of _voters_ but I would not count on it being higher.<br /><br />As many have discovered to their chagrin, there is no pay scale for the work of trying to clean up other people's externalized costs.<br /><br />Unless you have grandchildren, or value other people's grandchildren, of course. Working for them is its own reward.<br /><br />Shorter to economists generally: if you've been holding anything back, that has needed to be said -- what can you hope to gain for yourself compared to what the future is losing while you delay?<br /><br />Talk to an ecologist if you don't get it. If you do get it, why are you being so moderate about saying so?Hank Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07521410755553979665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-10145379263208792832009-11-17T09:42:20.387-05:002009-11-17T09:42:20.387-05:00Eli: All that is in the public domain. If you want...Eli: All that is in the public domain. If you want a private, one-on-one tutorial, you know how to find me and you can guess my rate.richardtolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14239680555557587153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-91298116680550106572009-11-17T09:32:35.907-05:002009-11-17T09:32:35.907-05:00Not very hard.
More seriously, how can/does CBA h...Not very hard.<br /><br />More seriously, how can/does CBA handle the cummulative and essentially permanent CO2 forcing problem which extends for a couple of hundred years. We have a pretty good handle on the asymmetric part of the problem now.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-14140094776074209662009-11-17T09:07:55.714-05:002009-11-17T09:07:55.714-05:00Just for the record: I have been arguing for a car...Just for the record: I have been arguing for a carbon tax since 1991. Nordhaus has argued for a carbon tax since 1977. (Yohe's start date lies somewhere between 1977 and 1991, but I can't recall exactly when.)<br /><br />Weitzman's 2009 paper draws the same conclusions as Tol's 2003 paper.richardtolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14239680555557587153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-21438613639224158502009-11-17T09:00:04.059-05:002009-11-17T09:00:04.059-05:00IEHO, Richard Tol is the designated successor to W...IEHO, Richard Tol is the designated successor to William Nordhaus and Gary Yohe, and as them, is limited by the tools in his box. While money is fungible it is not everything, and in spite of rumor, it can't buy everything. More precisely it is not possible to accurately value everything, and the past, while a guide in selecting rates of change, is far from perfect. Moreover, while data is a good thing, if we had data on the future we would use it, but, alas, we are forced to use models, and with them comes uncertainty. Hell, even with data you can have some uncertainty<br /><br />Eli has problems with the way that <a href="rabett.blogspot.com/.../sins-of-fathers-hallmark-of-modern.html" rel="nofollow"> Nordhaus, Yohe</a> and Tol have structured their work allowing it to be used to reinforce delay and, in the early days worse. The economics has had trouble capturing the very real downsides and procrastination penalties. This is the basic Rommulan attack on the economists and to it Eli would add that the cost benefit analyses have never captured the benefits one would get from early action based on the centuries long persistence of CO2 forcing because ANY positive discount rate taken over a few hundred years pushes the benefit of early action to zero.<br /><br />Eli has noted a sea change touched off by <a href="http://mises.org/Community/blogs/tokyotom/archive/2009/02/13/quot-fat-tails-quot-cost-benefit-analysis-and-climate-change-weitzman-replies-to-nordhaus.aspx" rel="nofollow">Weizman's notice of the asymmetry of risk from climate change</a> and which Tol to his credit is following. Loosely put, they now accept Stern's conclusions but still don't like very much how he got there. <br /><br />Now others, not Eli, may say that this is reasoning from the conclusion, but allow the Rabett to point out that others were there many years ago, as <a href="http://rabett.blogspot.com/2009/01/wisdom-from-usenet-usenet-has-extremely.html" rel="nofollow"> countless USENET discussions including this rather lateish one show.</a><br /><br />Better late than never, but late has its costs which may be deposited in the account of those who council delay.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-73730864824680371882009-11-17T01:37:28.034-05:002009-11-17T01:37:28.034-05:00Thanks, Marion, that was a constructive contributi...Thanks, Marion, that was a constructive contribution.<br /><br />Climate policy will have to survive 10-20 electoral cycles. Calling names does not help. On the contrary, comparing people to McCarthy, Hitler, Stalin, Irving only polarises the debate and gets us further from where we want to be.<br /><br />Climate policy is difficult enough without mistaken historical analogues.richardtolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14239680555557587153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-24663811041190051472009-11-17T00:48:57.987-05:002009-11-17T00:48:57.987-05:00And one final thing:
This tactic, picking one sca...And one final thing:<br /><br />This tactic, picking one scapegoat and piling on him, is the same old right-wing M.O. - look what the GOP, Fox News, and the Teabaggers did in a coordinated campaign, sequentially, working on Van Jones, with plans to move down the list to other people like Cass Sunstein.<br /><br />The idea that since so many lying whores are attacking Joe Romm at once, his fairly optimistic and largely unobjectionable climate blog, and he himself, surely <i>must</i> be doing <i>something</i> wrong, is the entire POINT of the tactic.<br /><br />The market fundies at Breakthrough may believe they're presiding over the death of environmentalism, but I believe environmentalism will outlive them, and their self-serving and unscientific paradigm is heading for the ash-heap of history.Marion Delgadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09493068399042656060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-24008256930432384582009-11-17T00:39:12.967-05:002009-11-17T00:39:12.967-05:00Tol's entire career, as near as I can make out...Tol's entire career, as near as I can make out, has been built on telling rich people what they want to hear, more or less. Misreading the Irish economy 100%, and perhaps blaming his abject failure on tachyons traveling backwards in time from future carbon credits. If Romm is McCarthyite about Richard Concern Tol, then Tol was Stalinist against Al Gore. It'd be nice to buy these people a mirror.Marion Delgadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09493068399042656060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-42822212872816886152009-11-17T00:24:42.823-05:002009-11-17T00:24:42.823-05:00I can't really think of anything I despise mor...I can't really think of anything I despise more than the Breakthrough Institute right now.Marion Delgadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09493068399042656060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-68236272172085014822009-11-16T22:48:04.913-05:002009-11-16T22:48:04.913-05:00What's the common link in Eli's list? They...What's the common link in Eli's list? They all involve the denial of science.<br /><br />So you could call it "science denialism" or simply anti-science.<br /><br />By the way, they tell me Marc Morano is a very affable fellow. And I know for a fact that Tom Harris is. <br /><br />But what do you expect? They're slick PR professionals.Deep Climatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07739846320319167391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-61751152107809146692009-11-16T17:13:55.776-05:002009-11-16T17:13:55.776-05:00As the Romans said, de gustibus non est disputand...As the Romans said, de gustibus non est disputandum and Eli sure ain't gonna try to convince you that Joe Romm is the guy you want to sit down and have a beer with. That was George W. Bush and we know how that came out. <br /><br />However, what would you call people who deny mountains of evidence. Eli would remind you of the links between the tobacco denialism, ozone depletion denialism, climate change denialism, DDT caused malaria denialism, just to wave the red flag, AIDs/HIV denialism and more. It is a lifestyle. <br /><br />Still, being semi-reasonable, the Bunnies await a better description.<br /><br />Then, of course, there are the delayerists. . . .EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-86888671088955227532009-11-16T14:06:40.651-05:002009-11-16T14:06:40.651-05:00a) I am too young to remember Joe McCarthy, but I ...a) I am too young to remember Joe McCarthy, but I do have a sense of history. I do not like Joe Romm one bit. His blogs are full of nonsense and he is very unpleasant. Linking Romm to McCarthy is as unsavoury as linking critical voices in the climate debate to the Holocaust.<br /><br />b) Joe Romm never published his promished thrashing of my work.richardtolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14239680555557587153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-55212406046138063242009-11-16T14:01:21.733-05:002009-11-16T14:01:21.733-05:00Thanks to DC and RT for the information. The quot...Thanks to DC and RT for the information. The quote, was, however trimmed. More interesting, did Romm ever post Part 5 (there is a part 5, but it is about Larry Summers).EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-36017869654278953852009-11-16T12:38:35.166-05:002009-11-16T12:38:35.166-05:00Just to note that RP Sr. is plenty old enough to r...Just to note that RP Sr. is plenty old enough to remember McCarthy.Steve Bloomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12943109973917998380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-92039054767704574972009-11-16T10:54:38.962-05:002009-11-16T10:54:38.962-05:00Eli: The link is here:
http://climateprogress.org/...Eli: The link is here:<br />http://climateprogress.org/2009/01/15/richard-tol-voodoo-economics-global-warming/<br /><br />The citation is accurate.richardtolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14239680555557587153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-9019115043591706682009-11-16T09:11:52.853-05:002009-11-16T09:11:52.853-05:00As usual, projection.
The main discussion topic f...As usual, projection.<br /><br />The main discussion topic for the Twins is not what we should do about energy etc., but what environmentalists and others should say, or things they should not say. They should not call CO2 pollution, in particular, because it frightens the children. Just as Pielke Jr. strenuously tries to prevent anybody from ever linking storm damage to climate change. Or McIntyre tries to shout down anybody who talks about a hockey stick.<br /><br />And they all become oh so offended when anybody complains about their objections to what other people say. Hypocrites.Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249922708053689717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-66700840944007918042009-11-16T08:06:20.162-05:002009-11-16T08:06:20.162-05:00"Hank and Eli are old guys"
Yes: I thin..."Hank and Eli are old guys"<br /><br />Yes: I think there should be some sort of badge, or colour-coding, or maybe like wikipedia user-boxes, to indicate "this blogger is old enough to remember McCarthy" or "this blogger is in his 6th decade" or "this blog has been going for n years"William M. Connolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05836299130680534926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-54872865032992170382009-11-16T02:01:21.707-05:002009-11-16T02:01:21.707-05:00The quote is a condensed version of the 3.5 piece....The quote is a condensed version of the 3.5 piece. It's slightly longer:<br /><br />"It was and is my intention to discuss Tol’s work, which itself is a beloved of the right wing global warming deniers, in Part 5."<br /><br />So "not guilty" on the lesser charge, I would say. Still, throw the book at them for everything else.Deep Climatehttp://deepclimate.orgnoreply@blogger.com