tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post2506124851502384994..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Amitai Etzioni and Willie SoonEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-19735364505844026472015-04-07T05:38:59.145-04:002015-04-07T05:38:59.145-04:00Mal, were that the case, the third Monday in Jan...Mal, were that the case, the third Monday in January would be:<br /><br /> All Your Civil Rights Are Belong To Us Day THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-11803722647568376672015-04-06T21:26:31.593-04:002015-04-06T21:26:31.593-04:00Russell: "Well, Matt, why ever would folks ba...Russell: "Well, Matt, why ever would folks banned from luch counters and even the back of the bus, and denied public accomodation, free access to park benches and free association engage in legal activism and civil disobedience?"<br /><br />Or they could just, you know, stop smoking. Mal Adaptedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06123525780458234978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-34449736329254395812015-04-06T13:32:48.437-04:002015-04-06T13:32:48.437-04:00Well, Matt, why ever would folks banned from luc...Well, Matt, why ever would folks banned from luch counters and even the back of the bus, and denied public accomodation, free access to park benches and free association engage in legal activism and civil disobedience?THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-57144525080562674962015-04-06T11:19:47.943-04:002015-04-06T11:19:47.943-04:00
To continue being sucked in the memo set off in i...<br />To continue being sucked in the memo set off in italics was from 1984 and not from Etzioni, although there are indications (e.g. we all know about Agenda 21) that he may have birthed the thought in a speech he gave to the tobacco industry. EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-22064247100093444392015-04-06T08:41:24.319-04:002015-04-06T08:41:24.319-04:00'There he poe's again"
Sorry Russell...'There he poe's again"<br /><br />Sorry Russell. Got it now.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13637756483122031663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-9193789457889958642015-04-06T05:51:11.017-04:002015-04-06T05:51:11.017-04:00"I think he was bang on... blacks before the ..."I think he was bang on... blacks before the CR movement"<br /><br />Are you being serious Russell? Genuine question.<br /><br />The full quote also compared the treatment of smokers to that of "Jews in Nazi Germany". Was that also "bang on"?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13637756483122031663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-48643740048533177672015-04-05T19:56:15.196-04:002015-04-05T19:56:15.196-04:00There he poe's again.There he poe's again.THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-67408608285129927512015-04-05T13:31:01.775-04:002015-04-05T13:31:01.775-04:00Russell Seitz: " the abusive treatment of cig...Russell Seitz: " the abusive treatment of cigarette smokers .... the increasingly hostile treatment of... those who chose to smoke cigarettes and the segmentation, of smokers is parallel to, that of ...blacks before the Civil Rights movement... acts of physical and psychological violence against smokers, and the potential for even more . "<br /><br />Would calling Etzioni and Seitz tobacco-harmfulness deniers be analogous to saying they're racism deniers? You be the judge.Mal Adaptedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06123525780458234978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-17294993133685063262015-04-04T15:05:58.947-04:002015-04-04T15:05:58.947-04:00I reserve the right to repeat what follows , if ap...I reserve the right to repeat what follows , if appropriate when we've seen Part III :<br /><br />What's really amusing in the light of this is what Etzioni wrote in just weeks ago :<br /><br />"<br /><br /><b>Limiting what political donors can get, not give</b><br /><br /><a href="http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/232646-limiting-what-political-donors-can-get-not-give" rel="nofollow">This article was originally published in The Hill.</a><br /><br />Redefining bribery would go a long way toward preventing campaign contributions from corrupting our political system. <br /><br />This could be achieved by limiting what contributors can gain in exchange for their donations rather than by adding or restoring limitations on the amounts they can donate. In this way, the suggested reform would avoid falling afoul of Supreme Court rulings that treat donations as a form of speech and hence deem most limitations on donations to be unconstitutional.<br /><br />Better yet, the Court has already indicated that it favors a focus on corruption rather than on donations. The Court has repeatedly recognized that the “[g]overnment has a strong interest, no less critical to our democratic system, in combatting corruption and its appearance.” In McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission (2014), the Court stated that “disclosure of contributions minimizes the potential for abuse of the campaign finance system [and] may also ‘deter actual corruption and avoid the appearance of corruption by exposing large contributions and expenditures to the light of publicity.’” This raises the question of what constitutes corruption...."THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-60000705529864914022015-04-04T00:34:35.300-04:002015-04-04T00:34:35.300-04:00Your command is Eli's word Russell.Your command is Eli's word Russell.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-49297812915393272742015-04-03T18:42:50.041-04:002015-04-03T18:42:50.041-04:00Snip, snip s'il vous plait Eli- reCaptcha ha...Snip, snip s'il vous plait Eli- reCaptcha has gone all clone on us THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-77900997101364919882015-04-03T18:39:56.908-04:002015-04-03T18:39:56.908-04:00Eli is invited to apply the same principles and a ...Eli is invited to apply the same principles and a little dimensional analysis to the mass of potentiallly carcinogenic pyrolysis products procued by vehicle engines,home heating, cooking and all forms of domestic fire from candles to incense.<br /><br />All of which dwarf tobqacoo emissions.<br /><br />Though i esteem Etzoni's communitarians to be in general enemies of liberty , property and the life of the mind . I think he was bang on in denouncing:<br /><br /><br />" the abusive treatment of cigarette smokers .... the increasingly hostile treatment of... those who chose to smoke cigarettes and the segmentation, of smokers is parallel to, that of ...blacks before the Civil Rights movement... acts of physical and psychological violence against smokers, and the potential for even more . "<br /><br />I'll spare you the rest of the indictment of communitarian cultural aggression -- they are still as addicted as the religious right to banning whatever they can. <br /><br /><br />THE CLIMATE WARShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578106673226403151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-63648648939520857822015-04-03T17:55:19.190-04:002015-04-03T17:55:19.190-04:00Eli, what is the RR? The relative risk figures fro...Eli, what is the RR? The relative risk figures from the various studies are the same regardless of which authority chooses to assess them. You can look at them directly yourself.<br /><br />Cancer of the lung is a potentially lethal disease. There are lots of irritating substances that trigger asthma government does not need to pass laws about. The evidence-base for second-hand smoke causing all sorts of things is much narrow, and weaker, compared to ETS and lung cancer, which is probably the best studied. The best-studied condition is therefore the touchstone.<br /><br />So, what are the relative risks? 'Cause if the numbers are weak, going on and on about 'industry' and 'corruption' would be pointless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-34108927226366770372015-04-03T15:35:25.198-04:002015-04-03T15:35:25.198-04:00Search of "secondhand" in the 2014 Surge...Search of "secondhand" in the <a href="http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/50-years-of-progress/" rel="nofollow">2014 Surgeon General Report</a>. That is ~1000 pages, similar in size and nature to IPCC WG I, for example.<br /><br />As Eli knows, (but maybe not some others here), a lot of the damage from smoke (first, second or third-hand) is NOT lung cancer.JohnMasheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08174651130367553996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-49083745106124145652015-04-03T12:34:12.925-04:002015-04-03T12:34:12.925-04:00The problem of values (individual and community) w...The problem of values (individual and community) which troubled philosophers so much has been rendered trivial meanwhile by the problem of AGW.Florifulguratorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18308710335606861438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-61662404577134510402015-04-03T09:44:10.718-04:002015-04-03T09:44:10.718-04:00Etzioni's "communitarian" sociology ...Etzioni's "communitarian" sociology aims at balancing the values of the community against the rights of the individual. Which raises the question: who defines the values of the community?<br /><br />Why, it's Etzioni, of course! Clutching his latest book in one hand and his fat check from Big Tobacco in the other hand.<br /><br />I had a low opinion of Etzioni already, but this ought to be a fatal blow to his reputation.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575837647825433144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-91963876186247834852015-04-03T09:24:32.733-04:002015-04-03T09:24:32.733-04:00What are you going to do about the fact that the r...<i>What are you going to do about the fact that the risk of lung cancer from exposure to ETS appears to be low?</i><br /><br />Well, Eli beat me to it, but when are you going to answer the question: is AGW a conspiracy of scientists too, in your humble opinion, shub?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-46847848827643499822015-04-03T09:15:49.937-04:002015-04-03T09:15:49.937-04:00The NIH National Cancer Institute demurrs
--------...The NIH <a href="http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet" rel="nofollow">National Cancer Institute </a>demurrs<br />----------------------<br />Inhaling secondhand smoke causes lung cancer in nonsmoking adults (4, 5). Approximately 3,000 lung cancer deaths occur each year among adult nonsmokers in the United States as a result of exposure to secondhand smoke (2). The U.S. Surgeon General estimates that living with a smoker increases a nonsmoker’s chances of developing lung cancer by 20 to 30 percent (4).<br /><br />Secondhand smoke is associated with disease and premature death in nonsmoking adults and children (4, 5). Exposure to secondhand smoke irritates the airways and has immediate harmful effects on a person’s heart and blood vessels. It may increase the risk of heart disease by an estimated 25 to 30 percent (4). In the United States, secondhand smoke is thought to cause about 46,000 heart disease deaths each year (8). There may also be a link between exposure to secondhand smoke and the risk of stroke and hardening of the arteries; however, additional research is needed to confirm this link.<br /><br />Children exposed to secondhand smoke are at increased risk of sudden infant death syndrome, ear infections, colds, pneumonia, bronchitis, and more severe asthma. Being exposed to secondhand smoke slows the growth of children’s lungs and can cause them to cough, wheeze, and feel breathless (4, 5).<br />----------------------------<br /><br />Besides, no bunny dies from measles so why vaccinate people? <br />EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-68109147881690955822015-04-03T07:00:53.438-04:002015-04-03T07:00:53.438-04:00You still haven't answered the question:
What...You still haven't answered the question:<br /><br />What are you going to do about the fact that the risk of lung cancer from exposure to ETS appears to be low?<br /><br />If the risk is low, then the tobacco industry would be right to consider their business would be impacted adversely by chasing smokers outdoors.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-60204852711225631342015-04-03T05:12:44.192-04:002015-04-03T05:12:44.192-04:00I'm sort of libertarian, so I can see why this...I'm sort of libertarian, so I can see why this guy would take cash to write libertarian material. I've noticed moral flexibility is quite the norm. For example, I haven't seen much reaction to the Saudi murder of 60 Houthi children, possibly because the powers that be thinks this is justified by their religious affiliations? <br /><br />When I see what goes on in this world I feel like writing a huge complaint in size 84 font. But in the end, who cares? Fernando Leanmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16085680730729620836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-6455022306874471432015-04-03T00:36:52.514-04:002015-04-03T00:36:52.514-04:00Interesting post. Somehow at some stage I got put ...Interesting post. Somehow at some stage I got put on Etzioni's mailing list and so sometimes read his stuff. It is a strange blend of communitarian and libertarian stuff, so I find it hard to predict where he is going to land on issues affecting US nationalism, for instance. Only the anarchist manages similar sorts of intricate machinations that make little sense to the outsider.<br />You should ask him where he sits now. Moral disgust is a very interesting topic and well worth studying. But so is manufactured dissent.Roger Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13558413693023988451noreply@blogger.com