tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post2074527933019449535..comments2024-03-19T03:14:04.172-04:00Comments on Rabett Run: Game Changer - Chevy Volt, Car of the YearEliRabetthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-36388168981102536352013-08-15T08:32:59.223-04:002013-08-15T08:32:59.223-04:00Fred! I want to ask a question regarding car fina...Fred! I want to ask a question regarding <a href="www.houstondirectauto.com/" rel="nofollow"> car financing in houston </a> what how to deal with hybrid cars authorities?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06626255208450607496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-12150339609638308832010-11-23T00:07:07.118-05:002010-11-23T00:07:07.118-05:00The Volt's "mileage" depends entirel...The Volt's "mileage" depends entirely on how far you drive it between charges. If you commute less than ~40 miles a day, the only time you would have to put gas in the tank would be to keep it fresh (one tank per year).<br /><br />If you assume 35 mpg in charge sustaining mode, and you drove it 150 miles, you would burn just over 3 galons of gas, for an overall effective mileage of 48 mpg. If you drove 300 miles, this would be reduced to 40 mpg.<br /><br />But people do not typically drive this far. People spend the most time commuting. They will usually stay under the 40 mile all EV range, in which case the gas mileage is infinite. Occasionally, they will go beyond that limit, in which case the mileage (for the additional distance) will be about 35 mpg. If you drove 20 miles per day every day for a month, you would burn no gas. Then you might drive 150 miles, burning about 3 gallons, or 239 miles per gallon for that month. Normal drivers will have no trouble seeing gas mileage figures in the hundreds.ccehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03646816472336349526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-73114277701266821292010-11-21T22:55:12.087-05:002010-11-21T22:55:12.087-05:00Rattus,
Thank you for your comments. I feel that...Rattus,<br /><br />Thank you for your comments. I feel that you've made some very good points, and I also feel that I've done a poor job of expressing my concerns about the Chevy Volt.<br /><br />I am not disappointed that the Volt is a hybrid and not an EV - I'm disappointed that GM, through its subsidiary Chevrolet, is hyping the Volt as an EV instead of being honest with its marketing and calling it a PHEV. I love hybrids. I've had my Honda Insight for almost seven years and I really can't imagine going back to a conventional ICE auto. I'll probably continue to own a hybrid, even though I own one EV and expect to own others, for precisely the reason you mention - for trips longer than 100 miles or so hybrids are a better choice than EVs.<br /><br />As for the EVs made during the 1997 - 2003 period, I don't feel that it is fair to blame consumer demand for the low production numbers. Those numbers reflect supply limits, not demand limits. The auto manufacturers made the choice to do the minimum possible to satisfy the California CARB rules and, when the rules relaxed, GM certainly did all it could to eliminate private ownership of the EV1s it had produced. <br /><br />I'm just thankful Ford had a more enlightened attitude and I've been able to own and enjoy one of their Ranger EVs (which my wife named Sparky). Sparky is dependable 'around-town' transportation and a blast to drive. At eleven years of age and more than 34,000 miles it is just now approaching its first scheduled service - and that is just a transaxle oil change. It is hard for a car dealership to keep its mechanics busy when EVs have that kind of reliability. But I digress.<br /><br />Since this thread opened, I've received the November issue of CurrentEVents, the newsletter of the Electric Auto Association, and it has several articles and columns on the Volt. So lets look at some of the Chevy claims and see how they hold up to examination.<br /><br />Chevy claims an efficiency of 230 mpg for the Volt. But Popular Mechanics magazine found that in unsupervised tests the Volt got between 32 mpg and 36 mpg, not quite as efficient as a Prius. Those figures are consistent with the claim of a 300 mile range. And if the 230 mpg claim had any truth, a driver could start a trip with a full charge and a full tank and not need to refuel for over 2,000 miles. So I think it safe to label Chevy's efficiency claims for the Volt as hype.<br /><br />Chevy also claims the Volt is the first production serial hybrid in which the ICE is only used to generate electricity to charge the battery, not to drive the wheels. But it turns out that's not true. The Volt, like the Prius, contains a planetary gear system in which power from the ICE is coupled to the wheels. The only difference is that in the Volt the ICE is connected to the ring gear while in the Prius the ICE drives the wheels through the planetary carrier. Not a serial hybrid after all. So again it is safe to label this claim is just hype. <br /><br />There are other claims about the Volt that fail to hold up under examination. Chevy is being disingenuous at best. Bottom line - anyone who buys a Volt will be getting a hybrid with a large battery pack, with lower efficiency than a Prius, but with about twice the price tag. Caveat Emptor.<br /><br />I urge everone to exercise the same cautious skepticism about automakers' claims you would about climate blog claims. Don't blindly accept anything, particularly something that sounds too good to be true. Educate yourselves on the material and look for independent, objective data when possible. <br /><br />Road Worrier PhillipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-41553122034895645272010-11-20T23:43:43.206-05:002010-11-20T23:43:43.206-05:00Road Worrier,
You are right that I am probably no...Road Worrier,<br /><br />You are right that I am probably not as aware of prior EV's as you, but none of the vehicles you've cited were produced in quantities of much more than 1500. Smells like a prototype to me. <br /><br />The Volt is slated for a production run of 11,000 in the first year and given the positive market reaction that will probably go up with battery availability, afterall GM is currently building factories to produce batteries for this model (and I presume future models). Should this technology prove to be successful in the market, and the initial reaction seems good, it will be interesting to see how it develops. <br /><br />Unlike you, I am not disappointed that the Volt is not a pure EV. It is an intelligent compromise since I do not currently see a clear path to rapid (say 10 minute or less) recharging for pure EVs. The EV1 at it's best only got 150 miles to the charge (I actually had thought is was closer to 200, but WTH). The limitations on range and recharging time for pure EVs is a big problem to acceptance in the larger market. The Volt, and series hybrid technology in general, fills this gap. It makes a car which runs in an electric mode most of the time for most people work. For those times when you run far from home it has a very efficient ICE. What is wrong with that?Rattus Norvegicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03449457204330125792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-3153641233246529652010-11-20T23:20:36.389-05:002010-11-20T23:20:36.389-05:00cce,
You are very right, especially on the smalle...cce,<br /><br />You are very right, especially on the smaller cars. But I find it interesting to compare the value offered to the consumer for a mileage champ. In this case I think the comparison would be a Toyota Prius vs. a Chevy Sprint from the late 1980's to the mid 1990's. The Sprint/Metro was quite fuel efficient, 35 city/45 highway, it did this with a noisy and vibration prone inline 3 which produced a massive 55hp. It could barely get out of it's own way. In addition, the Sprint was very lightly built and was described in the automotive press of the day as being a "penalty box". The Prius on the other had has a full complement of modern safety features, is comfortable to drive and has enough power to get out of it's own way (gen II has 110hp, Gen III 134hp). It also gets ~40 highway and ~50 city, better mileage than the old Sprint. Which would you rather drive?<br /><br />In my mind this is a testament to the improvements in drive train technology that Toyota (and of course Honda with the Insight and the CRZ and Ford with their hybrids) have made. It is possible to make a car which is exceptionally efficient and provides the safety and comfort which consumers desire in today's market. They Chevy Volt is the latest entry in this market, and to my mind at least the most interesting.<br /><br />Me, I'm a member of the cult of Subaru (hey, it's snowing to beat the band here and temperature is about 7F right now) and hope that by the time I buy my next car that they will have an interesting hybrid option, or at least competitors will have an interesting 4WD product to consider. If a series hybrid like the Volt but w/4WD is available, it will be high on my list.<br /><br />Oh, and David, bicycles are lighter. However in a city which is infested with cyclists (and not in a bad way) I saw one guy riding a bike tonight. My thought: that's one tough MF. It's so cold here that people weren't even walking!Rattus Norvegicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03449457204330125792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-87467355058474653512010-11-20T20:56:37.699-05:002010-11-20T20:56:37.699-05:00I love Austin Goolsbee. Enjoyed his interviews wit...I love Austin Goolsbee. Enjoyed his interviews with Jon Stewart.clearsciencehttp://clearscience.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-82233186106252670662010-11-20T18:30:18.785-05:002010-11-20T18:30:18.785-05:00Bicycles weigh even less.Bicycles weigh even less.David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-15903324507272979282010-11-19T22:02:32.778-05:002010-11-19T22:02:32.778-05:00CAFE didn't start until the mid '70s. Car...CAFE didn't start until the mid '70s. Cars lost weight until the mid '80s, but since then they have gotten way heavier.<br /><br />But if you want to compare even older cars, new cars still have them beat. Cars today are packed to the gills with safety equipment, sound deadening and creature comforts. Compact cars today weigh 2700 to 3000 lbs, which is heavier than Mustangs, Falcons, and Valiants of yore. The modern analog to that Plymouth would be a Chrysler 300 or Dodge Charger, both of which weigh up to 4000 lbs. SUVs and minivans have largely replaced station wagons. Almost all pickups today have four doors and have frames that are truly gigantic. Park a classic pickup next to a pickup of the same size (i.e. half ton, 3/4 ton) and there's no comparison.ccehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03646816472336349526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-32799657041683981642010-11-19T21:01:09.928-05:002010-11-19T21:01:09.928-05:00cc, cars are a hell of a lot lighter than in the s...cc, cars are a hell of a lot lighter than in the sixties and seventies driven by the mileage standards. For one thing the materials are lighter, composites, aluminum and such. Take a look at this baby<br /><br />http://www.jcauto.com/60plymouthbefore.htmEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-91796087005617119542010-11-19T17:45:59.450-05:002010-11-19T17:45:59.450-05:00The next time I'm in the market for a new car,...The next time I'm in the market for a new car, I can't imagine not buying a series hybrid. On the other hand, I can't imagine a time when I will be able to afford a new car of any kind.<br /><br />Regarding the efficiency of new vehicles, cars are both heavier and more powerful than they were in decades past, which is the primary reason for the reduction in mileage since the mid '80s (the last time CAFE standards were updated). The new standards will raise efficiency in all vehicle classes.ccehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03646816472336349526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-81145497973975888522010-11-19T15:53:22.442-05:002010-11-19T15:53:22.442-05:00"The commentors have made some interesting po..."The commentors have made some interesting points. Thanks, Marlowe, for the interesting link. I am curious though, how many of the people reading this are going to reach into their pockets and actually put down $40,000 for a Volt? Or is your enthusiasm only abstract, and the Volt only a good idea for 'others'?"<br /><br />I'm not interested in paying $40,000 for *any* car, this car isn't being marketed to me. Note that the PHEV aspect of the car isn't by any means the only reason for the high sticker price. It's being marketed to people who typically buy cars that cost more than I'll pay.<br /><br />That's one of the very interesting things about it - they're targeting the mainstream Red State GM cushmobile market, not the ecofreak or econobox-buyer market. They're mainstreaming it, not niche marketing it. Yes, they won't make all that many in the first couple of years, but the direction they're going should be obvious.dhogazanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-76304675391022493442010-11-19T15:48:27.234-05:002010-11-19T15:48:27.234-05:00Mark:
"But seriously, as my little pickup go...Mark:<br /><br />"But seriously, as my little pickup goes beyond 300,000 miles, I'm very disappointed that the newer models appear to get worse mileage rather than better (I expected some improvement over 14 years)."<br /><br />Remember that EPA mileage estimation methodology has been changed many times during the time that including them in the sticker has been required. Don't necessarily assume that you're comparing apples to apples. This is even more true if you're comparing your actual mileage with EPA estimates (past, current, or future).<br /><br />On the other hand, I get the same feeling when I compare what my 1990 Acura Integra gets on the highway compared to EPA estimates for similarly-sized current vehicles. On the other hand, I've driven with mileage in mind my entire life, it's always been a bit of a game with me (can't wait until I own a car with a smart console telling me how I'm doing every moment in time!)dhogazanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-17868289857799633382010-11-19T13:08:42.546-05:002010-11-19T13:08:42.546-05:00Philip,
If i thought i could get my hands on one ...Philip,<br /><br />If i thought i could get my hands on one in the next 2 years yes. but i suspect that this will be difficult given expected supply and demand. we'll see.Marlowe Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06497415494967921609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-24683870527335699762010-11-19T12:48:16.800-05:002010-11-19T12:48:16.800-05:00So, maybe the real reason Republicans opposed the ...So, maybe the real reason Republicans opposed the GM bailout and preferred the automaker should go out of business is because of their blind hatred of anything that suggests going easy on the environment. <br /><br />But seriously, as my little pickup goes beyond 300,000 miles, I'm very disappointed that the newer models appear to get worse mileage rather than better (I expected some improvement over 14 years).Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07891989201161664914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-50189412431209389862010-11-19T11:44:25.698-05:002010-11-19T11:44:25.698-05:00Were I in the market for a new car I would certain...Were I in the market for a new car I would certainly be considering the Volt. However, since I will drive my current car into the ground I don't expect to be in the market for around 10 years when this technology will have presumably matured.Rattus Norvegicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03449457204330125792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-78788184956594945792010-11-19T05:17:10.412-05:002010-11-19T05:17:10.412-05:00The commentors have made some interesting points. ...The commentors have made some interesting points. Thanks, Marlowe, for the interesting link. I am curious though, how many of the people reading this are going to reach into their pockets and actually put down $40,000 for a Volt? Or is your enthusiasm only abstract, and the Volt only a good idea for 'others'?<br /><br />Road Worrier PhillipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-25956346533002991572010-11-18T23:41:56.171-05:002010-11-18T23:41:56.171-05:00The Volt is also "Automobile of the Year"...The Volt is also "Automobile of the Year" from Automobile Magazine.<br /><br />And please, no comparisons to the EV1 as if it were a real car. It was a two seater with a limited range. Total production was about 1100 cars and you couldn't buy one. GM expects to build 55,000 Volts in the next two years, which it will have no trouble selling regardless of how "expensive" some might believe it to be. This is the first mass produced, no compromise electric vehicle and the technology will only get better. Yes it's a game changer.ccehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03646816472336349526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-64946154123064746382010-11-18T23:01:33.086-05:002010-11-18T23:01:33.086-05:00John,
I always get upset about GI's saying th...John,<br /><br />I always get upset about GI's saying they found a weapons "cachet" when what they mean is a weapons "cache".Rattus Norvegicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03449457204330125792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-40506011915150750622010-11-18T21:44:51.473-05:002010-11-18T21:44:51.473-05:00"...most of the time could use no more than a..."...most of the time could use no more than a tank of gas-9.3 gallons-a year..."<br /><br />Dang! I hafta add Sta-Bil to my car now too! <br /><br />arch stantonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-69731622602469621872010-11-18T21:36:47.323-05:002010-11-18T21:36:47.323-05:00"Car Talk""Car Talk"David B. Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02917182411282836875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-17906749916502437362010-11-18T19:01:14.144-05:002010-11-18T19:01:14.144-05:00The Rabett is getting wild with spelling.
First we...The Rabett is getting wild with spelling.<br />First we get Chevie, which reads like a French Chevy.<br />Then we get<br />"part of the art of sales is to sell you something more expensive because it provides cache as well as utility"<br /><br />I've helped sell many computers with cache memories, because they actually do make a huge performance difference. As for cachet, well, at SGI, I think we didget extra money because our computers were Indigo or other colors. :-)John Masheynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-16984674821877079692010-11-18T16:28:16.544-05:002010-11-18T16:28:16.544-05:00A car that's a pure EV for most (shortish) rou...A car that's a pure EV for most (shortish) round-trips from and to the garage socket, and can go 400 miles? Definitely a new thing, definitely a good thing.<br /><br />(<em><a href="http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/" rel="nofollow">How fire can be domesticated</a></em>)GRLCowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894036301406557803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-33259947118927083662010-11-18T15:52:20.218-05:002010-11-18T15:52:20.218-05:00Philip see here for data on trends in the u.s.Philip see <a href="http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fetrends.htm#summary" rel="nofollow"> here </a> for data on trends in the u.s.Marlowe Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06497415494967921609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-91903074723831869092010-11-18T15:36:50.578-05:002010-11-18T15:36:50.578-05:00Average passenger car mileage was 14 in 1960, less...Average passenger car mileage was 14 in 1960, less before. Time helps. That and higher gasoline prices, and a focused campaign to get rid of clunkers.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16612221.post-22404628816762340202010-11-18T14:51:32.108-05:002010-11-18T14:51:32.108-05:00Moreover, it is likely that the price will fall as...Moreover, it is likely that the price will fall as production ramps up. As with computers, the cutting edge one is expensive, and the "older" models fall down the curve. As Marlowe says, part of the art of sales is to sell you something more expensive because it provides cache as well as utility. See Apple/MercedesEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.com